Is the 2-3 gear slider the same as the 3-4 gear slider (are they interchangeable)? It was my understanding that the slider was mated to the part that it slides on. But, when I sort of mix and match them, I really can't tell much fitment differences. I also notice that sliders are sold separate from the thingy it slides on. The reason I ask is because I can see a little wear on the 1st gear side of the slider and I was thinking of replacing it with a nicer slider. Opinions appreciated. Please and thank you!

 

I just today finished rebuilding a M20 And I didn't see any difference in the sliders.

 

My 1-2 gear slider had a hard life. Engagement teeth are chewed up a bit and the slider part on the inside (not strait across). Sort of a wear pattern. Gears are like new. Was behind a 454 crate motor. Not sure what hp but it was 4 bolt main. I don't think I have a nice replacement so will start searching.

 

google muncie torque lock sliders, i used them when i rebuilt mine a few years back...seemed like a nice upgrade

 

I agree, they are interchangeable.

 

The Parts and Illustration Catalog shows different part numbers. 357238 for 1st-2nd, and 357239 for 3rd-4th. Also, my copy of an "Auto Gear Replacement" parts list shows different numbers. Best to contact a rebuilder.

 

I think the slider might be the same but the thingy it slides on might be different. But, I think I saw them listed as the same in some place and I think I saw something talking about the different part numbers but being interchangeable?? I won't do anything untill I find out more info. I also heard that the slider was hand fitted to the thing it slides on. But, I see mention that people just mix and match parts. And, I look at worn sliders and they seem to function fine as well. So, if I find a nice looking slider and it doesn't cost much, I will be temped to used it. I think a good 3-4 gear slider is the best chance of finding a good used one. !-2 get too much use over the years. I will consider NOS if the price is right. Having fun and feeling like it is done right is my priority. Best to all! Thanks for the comments!

 

No.
Original Muncie sliders are different. The 1-2 slider is clearanced for the reverse idler gear. All new sliders are clearanced, regardless of position.
If you are going that deep into the trans check into the torque lock assemblies like learje suggested. They are worth the extra cost.
Mike

 

I saw the torque lock sliders but I assumed they were special application for racing. I was a little worried about deviating from how the transmission was engineered. I don't recall ever having issues with a muncie popping out of gear. I would assume that something was wrong if that happened consistently. I have no problem considering torque lock sliders. Any downside t using them??

Based on your description, can I assume that the rear slider can be used on the front synchronizer assembly but the front can't be used on the rear assembly because of the clearance issue. So, only interchangeable in one direction? Thanks for commenting.

 

Only if you reuse the original sliders. All replacement sliders will work in either position. There may be a racing advantage to the torque lock units but I use them for the smoother shifting.
Mike

 

You get smoother shifting from them. I also read that all modern transmissions use them as well. If I buy them, I see there are those that are made in Italy (Moseiro??). I think I would buy those for there reputation.

I have hauled this transmission around sine I was about 13 years old. I put it back together with home made gaskets. It was cool to look at gaskets that I made as a kid. The input had teeth missing and the counter gear was gone (I put it together without it). I remember the gear twisted in half and piece stuck to the magnet. It is out of a 69 chevy of some sort (wide ratio). I am building a nice transmission and using the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and reverse gears from it. I am also using the input retainer and the cluster gear shaft. They are all in exceptional condition. I am putting all this in a close ratio case with a over haul kit.

I seem to recall people modifying the sliders back in the old days to sort of make torque lock sliders. I can't tell if this is a wear pattern I am looking at from hard 1st gear starts or if this was something that the guy I got the car from (back in 1972) did to keep it from popping out of gear. I was about 13 years old and saved everything I had to buy the car. The guy's name was Mr. Race. He built cars and drove them to work as fun and stuff. Always working on projects and doing odd combinations like bb in vega's and bb in 4 door sedan's and making them look slow.

Take care!

 

hi , how are the muncie torque lock sliders different than what gm installed in the muncies

 

A standard Muncie slider is cut with parallel grooves in it. The grooves slide over the engagement teeth on the gear. The teeth slide straight in. Under load (acceleration or deceloration) the teeth just sit in there. With torque locks, the groove is beveled (funnel shape). Under load, either aceleration or deceleration the engagement teeth are pulled deeper into the slider (slider is pulled over the gears synchro teeth). The can cause slower shifts and premature wear of synchro teeth. But, they hold onto the gear well. Modern trans use them but the engagement are designed for it. If you go to Autogear, the talk about it on their website. I will buy standard sliders and hubs, Italian made. The gears I have are new or near new. Should be a great transmission.

 

The truth about Torque locks.

They should be used with used gears that have marginal wear on the engagement teeth and had falling out of gear issues. New gears with matched hub and sliders do not need them.

GM for some reason on later transmissions used a locking spline on the 3rd gear side of the 3-4 slider. This was when there was a difference between 1-2 & 3-4 assemblies and when you had to purchase matched assemblies.

Today with the super loose fitting replacement sliders all over Ebay a sloppy fitting torque lock will work better then a sloppy non locking one.

The downside of the Torque locks is that they load up the shift forks. The slider sucks itself into the gear and your shift fork is the only thing keeping it from going further. Some locking sliders have less of a rake on them. Currently Richmond ST10 sliders as well as the Autogear T85B-15A sliders are ones with less of a rake and do not load up forks as much as the ones everyone is flooding Ebay with.

 

I am going to investigate the Italian made slider assemblies. They might be pretty good. I don't mind the sliders that I have except they appear a little chipped up. Not keen on having things pop out of gear. Autogear does sell a nice hardened slider and hub set. They are out at the moment but have referred me to someone that carries them.

I was trying to put my counter shaft gear into the main case. I started to notice evidence of a previous blow up in the front of the case. I suspect this transmission might have had one of those funny counter shaft gears that had the chatter plate on it. I can see some gouging in the front of the case. I can also see evidence that the front trust washer spun. There is a slight shaving of metal from the area that retains the thrust washer. My new thrust washer does not hold itself securely. I located a guy that welds aluminum for a living and talked about running a small bead where the metal shaved out. Says he does it all the time on transmissions. I was happy to hear that.

Also found that when that chatter plate gave (something up front gave), It looks like it smacked into the lowest front bearing retainer bolt. Bolt hole looks loose/elongated ever so slightly. Chunk of aluminum missing. Threads look like poop in it. I will have it evaluated and might very well weld it shut and start over with it. Taking longer than planned and my transmission is going to be a lot more expensive than planned to make it right. But, it will me super nice. Hard to be patient. If you want me to post pictures, let me know. I can give it a try.