oil....
09-21-2018, 03:38 PM
#41
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Everything I read on racing oil is it does not have any of the detergents in it for use in street cars it’s designed to be ran then changed right away so it makes a very poor choice for a street driven car
09-21-2018, 03:45 PM
#42
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What does everyone think of this oil:
Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Car Motor Oil SAW 10W-30 is for muscle, showroom, classic and trophy cars without catalytic converters. It can be used in racing applications. Not recommended for passenger car use.
Available in convenient 5 quart bottles, the formulation is perfect for the Hot Rod and Classic Car crowd with an increased zinc value of 2100 PPM. Because many of these very special machines often spend long periods (winter for example in some parts of the country) off the roads, a number of the components of the additive package used in Lucas' Marine oils to provide rust and corrosion protection have been included in its unique formula.
Lucas Oil 10679 10W-30 Petroleum Oil - 5 Quart Jug
Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Car Motor Oil SAE 10W-30 is manufactured with the highest quality paraffinic base oils and is fortified with a unique additive package containing high levels of zinc, molybdenum and phosphorus, which provides a tougher, thicker additive film for maximum protection even under the most severe conditions. It improves the film strength between the cylinder wall and piston rings and slows oil burning and improves pressure in worn engines. It has good cold temperature properties and stands up to high operating temperatures. It is compatible with methanol and all racing fuels, as well as with synthetic and non-synthetic oils.Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Car Motor Oil SAW 10W-30 is for muscle, showroom, classic and trophy cars without catalytic converters. It can be used in racing applications. Not recommended for passenger car use.
Available in convenient 5 quart bottles, the formulation is perfect for the Hot Rod and Classic Car crowd with an increased zinc value of 2100 PPM. Because many of these very special machines often spend long periods (winter for example in some parts of the country) off the roads, a number of the components of the additive package used in Lucas' Marine oils to provide rust and corrosion protection have been included in its unique formula.
09-21-2018, 04:01 PM
#43
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Why do you neeed these boutique oil brands and formulas when off the shelf Walmart brand oil in there diesel line meets the API requirements for your engine for a few dollars more you can get Shell Rotalla from Walmart that meets the requirement too. You can even buy it in a five gallon bucket I never understood how so many people buy into marketing hype to spend there hard earned dollars
09-21-2018, 04:12 PM
#44
Melting Slicks
I called they said right under 1400 PPM and enough for a flat tappet cam said it is all you need. said as long as it says VR1 high zinc all the same amount of zinc no matter the weight of it.
09-21-2018, 04:23 PM
#46
Le Mans Master
For me......
Why do you neeed these boutique oil brands and formulas when off the shelf Walmart brand oil in there diesel line meets the API requirements for your engine for a few dollars more you can get Shell Rotalla from Walmart that meets the requirement too. You can even buy it in a five gallon bucket I never understood how so many people buy into marketing hype to spend there hard earned dollars
09-21-2018, 04:50 PM
#47
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09-21-2018, 07:15 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
Not mine
Mine were both Comp Cams. I called them after both times. They assured me that they had not changed anything in the way they make cams and all the changes were in the oil and they were getting the blame. The only other answer they had was to get the cam treated by nitetriding It which costs almost the same as the cost of the cam. So I know I now have two engines in cars left that have flat tappet and the other three all have rollers now. After these next two die. Which I assume they will I will never build anything but roller cams from now on. Everyone has an opinion on this and the only thing I know for sure is when I cut the oil filter open and find metal I know the end is near. I am hoping the high zinc thing works but I don't have a lot of faith in it at this point. . Just my .02 cents worth from experience.
09-21-2018, 07:16 PM
#49
Le Mans Master
And......
Mine were both Comp Cams. I called them after both times. They assured me that they had not changed anything in the way they make cams and all the changes were in the oil and they were getting the blame. The only other answer they had was to get the cam treated by nitetriding It which costs almost the same as the cost of the cam. So I know I now have two engines in cars left that have flat tappet and the other three all have rollers now. After these next two die. Which I assume they will I will never build anything but roller cams from now on. Everyone has an opinion on this and the only thing I know for sure is when I cut the oil filter open and find metal I know the end is near. I am hoping the high zinc thing works but I don't have a lot of faith in it at this point. . Just my .02 cents worth from experience.
09-24-2018, 09:22 PM
#50
Racer
If we go with the premise that I should stick with conventional oil, what would you recommend for my car?
Facts: 72,000 original miles on it. I live in a suburb of Chicago, where the weather I would take it out in ranges from 50 degrees to 90 degrees. I won't drive it at all during the winter months, or in any weather below 50 degrees. My garage temp in the most frigid winter months might get to around 40, which doesn't happen that often.
Finally, what viscosity would you recommend? That same engine builder told me that based on the facts above, I should use 15W-40, 20W-40 or straight 30 weight oil.
What do the rest of you think? I sure don't want to spend more than I have to, but I'm willing to pay what is necessary to take care of my car.
Last edited by ZRXGreen; 09-24-2018 at 10:48 PM.
09-25-2018, 06:38 AM
#51
Advanced
C6_Racer_X, can the Penn Grade oil be purchased in a conventional grade as opposed to synthetic? An engine builder I was speaking to who works on these cars told me that on my original '70 454 (that has never been rebuilt), I should not use synthetic.
If we go with the premise that I should stick with conventional oil, what would you recommend for my car?
Facts: 72,000 original miles on it. I live in a suburb of Chicago, where the weather I would take it out in ranges from 50 degrees to 90 degrees. I won't drive it at all during the winter months, or in any weather below 50 degrees. My garage temp in the most frigid winter months might get to around 40, which doesn't happen that often.
Finally, what viscosity would you recommend? That same engine builder told me that based on the facts above, I should use 15W-40, 20W-40 or straight 30 weight oil.
What do the rest of you think? I sure don't want to spend more than I have to, but I'm willing to pay what is necessary to take care of my car.
If we go with the premise that I should stick with conventional oil, what would you recommend for my car?
Facts: 72,000 original miles on it. I live in a suburb of Chicago, where the weather I would take it out in ranges from 50 degrees to 90 degrees. I won't drive it at all during the winter months, or in any weather below 50 degrees. My garage temp in the most frigid winter months might get to around 40, which doesn't happen that often.
Finally, what viscosity would you recommend? That same engine builder told me that based on the facts above, I should use 15W-40, 20W-40 or straight 30 weight oil.
What do the rest of you think? I sure don't want to spend more than I have to, but I'm willing to pay what is necessary to take care of my car.
First let me say "cool car"!
Yes, VR1 would be a very good choice for the 70 BB. Valvoline was the first to formulate and market a racing oil in the mid 60s. That same concept carries on today with VR1: a balanced formulation that maximizes wear and deposit control protection on the street or track. Designed for both gasoline and alcohol fueled engines. Let me add that engine oil formulations must be properly balanced to ensure adequate protection. All ZDP additive compounds are not the same and can react differently with various detergents. For example, anti wear and other additives can actually compete for the same surface areas, if not balanced correctly. This is not a good thing to happen!
VR1 does contain detergents to the API SN performance level. Far exceeding the needs of a 70s vintage car. The "S" refers to API "Service" category or gasoline engines.
VR1 is available in two viscosity grades: 10w30 and 20w50. No reason not to go with the 20w50. I wouldn't use the straight grades oils though, like SAE 30. Yes, 15w40 if you decide to go a Diesel engine oil.
Also VR1 is formulated at 1400 ppm zinc/1300 ppm phos. Great for the older cars but a little hard on catalytic converters.
I'm in Florida this week but will try and remember to send you a copy of the original racing oil development test report from 1965. Just a bit of history on the development of racing oil.
Vic
09-25-2018, 06:44 AM
#52
Melting Slicks
Hey Scott
First let me say "cool car"!
Yes, VR1 would be a very good choice for the 70 BB. Valvoline was the first to formulate and market a racing oil in the mid 60s. That same concept carries on today with VR1: a balanced formulation that maximizes wear and deposit control protection on the street or track. Designed for both gasoline and alcohol fueled engines. Let me add that engine oil formulations must be properly balanced to ensure adequate protection. All ZDP additive compounds are not the same and can react differently with various detergents. For example, anti wear and other additives can actually compete for the same surface areas, if not balanced correctly. This is not a good thing to happen!
VR1 does contain detergents to the API SN performance level. Far exceeding the needs of a 70s vintage car. The "S" refers to API "Service" category or gasoline engines.
VR1 is available in two viscosity grades: 10w30 and 20w50. No reason not to go with the 20w50. I wouldn't use the straight grades oils though, like SAE 30. Yes, 15w40 if you decide to go a Diesel engine oil.
Also VR1 is formulated at 1400 ppm zinc/1300 ppm phos. Great for the older cars but a little hard on catalytic converters.
I'm in Florida this week but will try and remember to send you a copy of the original racing oil development test report from 1965. Just a bit of history on the development of racing oil.
Vic
09-25-2018, 07:14 AM
#53
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St. Jude Donor '05
unfortunately the "giants" are prone to using cheap crappy cores that the best oils probably cant save.
09-25-2018, 07:38 AM
#54
Advanced
SAE 30 is not bad other than pumpability and cold flow properties are increased because of the vis grade. So it’s a temperature issue and therefore greatly influenced by your operating conditions. I know there are a lot of straight grades being used in drag racing but, for example, I know of none being used in NASCAR. At least the big teams.
Last edited by Kerz; 09-25-2018 at 07:52 AM.
09-25-2018, 09:45 AM
#55
Safety Car
C6_Racer_X, can the Penn Grade oil be purchased in a conventional grade as opposed to synthetic? An engine builder I was speaking to who works on these cars told me that on my original '70 454 (that has never been rebuilt), I should not use synthetic.
If we go with the premise that I should stick with conventional oil, what would you recommend for my car?
Facts: 72,000 original miles on it. I live in a suburb of Chicago, where the weather I would take it out in ranges from 50 degrees to 90 degrees. I won't drive it at all during the winter months, or in any weather below 50 degrees. My garage temp in the most frigid winter months might get to around 40, which doesn't happen that often.
Finally, what viscosity would you recommend? That same engine builder told me that based on the facts above, I should use 15W-40, 20W-40 or straight 30 weight oil.
What do the rest of you think? I sure don't want to spend more than I have to, but I'm willing to pay what is necessary to take care of my car.
If we go with the premise that I should stick with conventional oil, what would you recommend for my car?
Facts: 72,000 original miles on it. I live in a suburb of Chicago, where the weather I would take it out in ranges from 50 degrees to 90 degrees. I won't drive it at all during the winter months, or in any weather below 50 degrees. My garage temp in the most frigid winter months might get to around 40, which doesn't happen that often.
Finally, what viscosity would you recommend? That same engine builder told me that based on the facts above, I should use 15W-40, 20W-40 or straight 30 weight oil.
What do the rest of you think? I sure don't want to spend more than I have to, but I'm willing to pay what is necessary to take care of my car.
If you have relatively fresh front and rear main seals, even full synthetic is a better choice these days than conventional oils, except (maybe) for the initial break in period. Even that can be done with synthetic oil if the engine builder is prepared for that. New Corvettes, for example are filled at the factory with synthetic oil (actually a lot of new cars are factory filled with synthetic oil).
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ZRXGreen (09-25-2018)
09-25-2018, 11:29 AM
#56
Melting Slicks
SAE 30 is not bad other than pumpability and cold flow properties are increased because of the vis grade. So it’s a temperature issue and therefore greatly influenced by your operating conditions. I know there are a lot of straight grades being used in drag racing but, for example, I know of none being used in NASCAR. At least the big teams.
09-25-2018, 01:41 PM
#57
Team Owner
Been driving Chevrolets since 1973 both BB and SB and never had a cam go bad.
09-25-2018, 02:31 PM
#58
Racer
Hey Scott
First let me say "cool car"!
Yes, VR1 would be a very good choice for the 70 BB. Valvoline was the first to formulate and market a racing oil in the mid 60s. That same concept carries on today with VR1: a balanced formulation that maximizes wear and deposit control protection on the street or track. Designed for both gasoline and alcohol fueled engines. Let me add that engine oil formulations must be properly balanced to ensure adequate protection. All ZDP additive compounds are not the same and can react differently with various detergents. For example, anti wear and other additives can actually compete for the same surface areas, if not balanced correctly. This is not a good thing to happen!
VR1 does contain detergents to the API SN performance level. Far exceeding the needs of a 70s vintage car. The "S" refers to API "Service" category or gasoline engines.
VR1 is available in two viscosity grades: 10w30 and 20w50. No reason not to go with the 20w50. I wouldn't use the straight grades oils though, like SAE 30. Yes, 15w40 if you decide to go a Diesel engine oil.
Also VR1 is formulated at 1400 ppm zinc/1300 ppm phos. Great for the older cars but a little hard on catalytic converters.
I'm in Florida this week but will try and remember to send you a copy of the original racing oil development test report from 1965. Just a bit of history on the development of racing oil.
Vic
Coming from the industry (and just seeing the posts on the forum about oil), you know that there are a lot of opinions out there about engine lubrication. I'm curious to know your response to some of what has been written in this thread about VR1 oil. (C6_Racer_X, I hope you don't mind me referring to you below...)
IMHO, C6_Racer_X comes across as knowledgable on the topic. And you list in the About Me section of your profile that you are a "Retired Valvoline Director of Technology. Responsibilities included: Engine Lab & Field Testing, HD Product Development, Global Tech Support," which needless to say sounds very impressive and leads me to believe that you are possibly an "expert" on the topic.
Vic, I'm not trying to instigate anything here, but I think the rest of us lay people out there would benefit from some clarity. What is your response to what C6_Racer_X had to say about VR1 oil no longer containing the same amount of Zinc that it used to?
I am sincerely curious as to your opinion on the current quality of VR1 conventional oil, as based on all of my research up until this point, that was the oil I was going to purchase for my car, although now I'm not as sure as I was...
Thank you
Last edited by ZRXGreen; 09-25-2018 at 02:33 PM.
09-25-2018, 05:07 PM
#59
Advanced
Vic
09-25-2018, 05:35 PM
#60
Advanced
Vic, let me start by saying thank you for your response, as well as the compliment on my car! It's been a dream car for me...
Coming from the industry (and just seeing the posts on the forum about oil), you know that there are a lot of opinions out there about engine lubrication. I'm curious to know your response to some of what has been written in this thread about VR1 oil. (C6_Racer_X, I hope you don't mind me referring to you below...)
IMHO, C6_Racer_X comes across as knowledgable on the topic. And you list in the About Me section of your profile that you are a "Retired Valvoline Director of Technology. Responsibilities included: Engine Lab & Field Testing, HD Product Development, Global Tech Support," which needless to say sounds very impressive and leads me to believe that you are possibly an "expert" on the topic.
Vic, I'm not trying to instigate anything here, but I think the rest of us lay people out there would benefit from some clarity. What is your response to what C6_Racer_X had to say about VR1 oil no longer containing the same amount of Zinc that it used to?
I am sincerely curious as to your opinion on the current quality of VR1 conventional oil, as based on all of my research up until this point, that was the oil I was going to purchase for my car, although now I'm not as sure as I was...
Thank you
Coming from the industry (and just seeing the posts on the forum about oil), you know that there are a lot of opinions out there about engine lubrication. I'm curious to know your response to some of what has been written in this thread about VR1 oil. (C6_Racer_X, I hope you don't mind me referring to you below...)
IMHO, C6_Racer_X comes across as knowledgable on the topic. And you list in the About Me section of your profile that you are a "Retired Valvoline Director of Technology. Responsibilities included: Engine Lab & Field Testing, HD Product Development, Global Tech Support," which needless to say sounds very impressive and leads me to believe that you are possibly an "expert" on the topic.
Vic, I'm not trying to instigate anything here, but I think the rest of us lay people out there would benefit from some clarity. What is your response to what C6_Racer_X had to say about VR1 oil no longer containing the same amount of Zinc that it used to?
I am sincerely curious as to your opinion on the current quality of VR1 conventional oil, as based on all of my research up until this point, that was the oil I was going to purchase for my car, although now I'm not as sure as I was...
Thank you
I'm having lunch next week with my old boss, Dr Frances Lockwood, Valvoline Chief Technology Officer. If interested, look her up on the Web. She is one of the world's foremost experts on tribolgy. That said I'll ask her about a Valvoline tech bulletin to address relative concerns. In my day I wrote a pile of those bulletins but none regarding this subject of our interest.
As far as the old oils being better than the current racing oil, I really don't see that as a possibility. Let me assure those reading this response that anti wear chemistry has changed significantly since 1965.
My goal here is to bring a correct response to many questions.
Vic