Engine problems 82 CE
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 188
Likes: 40
From: Rockaway NJ
Engine problems 82 CE
A little background
im in the process of rehabbing this car and plan to keep it as a driver.
This car has 180k on the clock and has had a slight miss at idle and on up.
Ive tuned the engine with the help of this forum. I like the CFI and I finally understand it. No codes but I do get a knock indication on the brick. I can’t hear it.
Last week the car developed a severe miss under load. Not driveable.
Took it to my trusted mechanic and he is diagnosing a worn cam lobe on #2
I don’t care about numbers matching. Just want a solid car in reasonable shape
so my dilemma is this.. Do I tear down the engine and prob rebuild both heads, leaving me with a 180k mile engine core? Or
Do I yank the engine and replace it with a rebuilt from someone like Jasper?
Im pretty sure I’m going to replace the engine but I would like to hear what you think.
Thanks
Bob
im in the process of rehabbing this car and plan to keep it as a driver.
This car has 180k on the clock and has had a slight miss at idle and on up.
Ive tuned the engine with the help of this forum. I like the CFI and I finally understand it. No codes but I do get a knock indication on the brick. I can’t hear it.
Last week the car developed a severe miss under load. Not driveable.
Took it to my trusted mechanic and he is diagnosing a worn cam lobe on #2
I don’t care about numbers matching. Just want a solid car in reasonable shape
so my dilemma is this.. Do I tear down the engine and prob rebuild both heads, leaving me with a 180k mile engine core? Or
Do I yank the engine and replace it with a rebuilt from someone like Jasper?
Im pretty sure I’m going to replace the engine but I would like to hear what you think.
Thanks
Bob
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 76,656
Likes: 1,851
From: Jeffersonville Indiana 812-288-7103
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
It sure looks like a lobe is gone.... and the problem with this is if the lobe is gone the metal went through the engine as well.
Honestly, I'd just pull the engine and rebuild it myself, it might cost you a bit more than doing the Jasper thing, but I've never trusted those engines vs my own rebuild... I'd rather have the original block with the car vs. a generic rebuilt engine. IMHO...
Find a trusted local machine shop and you'll probably end up with a better product.
Willcox
Honestly, I'd just pull the engine and rebuild it myself, it might cost you a bit more than doing the Jasper thing, but I've never trusted those engines vs my own rebuild... I'd rather have the original block with the car vs. a generic rebuilt engine. IMHO...
Find a trusted local machine shop and you'll probably end up with a better product.
Willcox
Last edited by Willcox Corvette; Oct 26, 2018 at 10:10 AM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 188
Likes: 40
From: Rockaway NJ
Thanks for the feedback. You make a good point. I do trust my mechanic. Been using them for years and they know Corvette’s. But not sure about the machine shop they use to rebuild engines.
Jasper at least offers a 3 year warranty on the engine. But the labor to replace is not warrantied.
I’ll post updates. BTW, I couldn’t be happier with the new interior that you folks supplied.
Jasper at least offers a 3 year warranty on the engine. But the labor to replace is not warrantied.
I’ll post updates. BTW, I couldn’t be happier with the new interior that you folks supplied.
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 76,656
Likes: 1,851
From: Jeffersonville Indiana 812-288-7103
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
Thanks for the feedback. You make a good point. I do trust my mechanic. Been using them for years and they know Corvette’s. But not sure about the machine shop they use to rebuild engines.
Jasper at least offers a 3 year warranty on the engine. But the labor to replace is not warrantied.
I’ll post updates. BTW, I couldn’t be happier with the new interior that you folks supplied.
Jasper at least offers a 3 year warranty on the engine. But the labor to replace is not warrantied.
I’ll post updates. BTW, I couldn’t be happier with the new interior that you folks supplied.
Or... option 2:
GM offers a crate stock motor replacement, p/n 12681429 which is the old 10067353 target motor just under a different number. We used to buy these by the truck load because they were cheap and came with an awesome warranty.
It was designed as a replacement for trucks, and has quite a bit more horse power. We used to buy these things for 1000.00, (not any more) then switch the camshaft to a 350/350 cam...
The warranty was 3 years and 100k miles and if you had an issue with the engine GM would replace it for free..... labor included.
If we swapped out the cam and the engine tanked we'd just keep our mouth shut about the cam swap and the only loss was the cam... I will say this, in over thirty plus years of selling what was called a "target master" engine, I only had two defective ones... One was missing a nut off the rocker arm and the other one was installed in the local country police car. The issue with the second one was that when you have an oil cooler and you blow an engine you're supposed to replace it. They didn't and it cooked the engine in about 100 miles. GM still warrantied it.
I just checked this engine number and you can find them all over the place from 1800 2300 bucks... This might be another option. Bradley Chev. has them at this link for 1789.99 free shipping which I can honestly say, you won't touch this price.
https://www.ebay.com/i/291443660544?chn=ps
But.. here my caveat; It's been 20 years since I carried the target motors, so look at the link and give them a call to verify that the warranty hasn't changed. If you go this route, you'll still get to at least keep the original block with the car.
Oh.. thanks for the props on the interior.
Ernie
Last edited by Willcox Corvette; Oct 26, 2018 at 11:43 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,232
Likes: 1,232
From: PHX AZ
Sometimes mechanics miss the OBVIOUS....you do not tell me enough for me to agree with Mr Wilcox (though his track record is outstanding).
Bought a 78 a while ago....horrible miss under load....bought it for a song. Mechanic told the owner 'cam lobe'.
Bought all new spark plug wires and ran them on top and outside of the normal channels....ran like a raped ape. Pulled the old plug wires out...(My LEAST favorite corvette job)....sure enough, bad wire/boot.
What SPECIFICALLY were the compression settings for ALL 8 cylinders....if 'the mechanic' cannot provide those...FIND ANOTHER MECHANIC! What Specifically does the vacuum gauge say when connected to the manifold vacuum port.
If it truly was a lobe it would show up in the compression and vacuum tests
Occam's Razor...do the simple stuff first!. Plugs wires cap rotor etc.
Then make sure that the TPS is exactly in the center of it's voltage range.
Good luck...I too have a 82 CFI CE
UnkaHal
Bought a 78 a while ago....horrible miss under load....bought it for a song. Mechanic told the owner 'cam lobe'.
Bought all new spark plug wires and ran them on top and outside of the normal channels....ran like a raped ape. Pulled the old plug wires out...(My LEAST favorite corvette job)....sure enough, bad wire/boot.
What SPECIFICALLY were the compression settings for ALL 8 cylinders....if 'the mechanic' cannot provide those...FIND ANOTHER MECHANIC! What Specifically does the vacuum gauge say when connected to the manifold vacuum port.
If it truly was a lobe it would show up in the compression and vacuum tests
Occam's Razor...do the simple stuff first!. Plugs wires cap rotor etc.
Then make sure that the TPS is exactly in the center of it's voltage range.
Good luck...I too have a 82 CFI CE
UnkaHal
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 76,656
Likes: 1,851
From: Jeffersonville Indiana 812-288-7103
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
Sometimes mechanics miss the OBVIOUS....you do not tell me enough for me to agree with Mr Wilcox (though his track record is outstanding).
Bought a 78 a while ago....horrible miss under load....bought it for a song. Mechanic told the owner 'cam lobe'.
Bought all new spark plug wires and ran them on top and outside of the normal channels....ran like a raped ape. Pulled the old plug wires out...(My LEAST favorite corvette job)....sure enough, bad wire/boot.
What SPECIFICALLY were the compression settings for ALL 8 cylinders....if 'the mechanic' cannot provide those...FIND ANOTHER MECHANIC! What Specifically does the vacuum gauge say when connected to the manifold vacuum port.
If it truly was a lobe it would show up in the compression and vacuum tests
Occam's Razor...do the simple stuff first!. Plugs wires cap rotor etc.
Then make sure that the TPS is exactly in the center of it's voltage range.
Good luck...I too have a 82 CFI CE
UnkaHal
Bought a 78 a while ago....horrible miss under load....bought it for a song. Mechanic told the owner 'cam lobe'.
Bought all new spark plug wires and ran them on top and outside of the normal channels....ran like a raped ape. Pulled the old plug wires out...(My LEAST favorite corvette job)....sure enough, bad wire/boot.
What SPECIFICALLY were the compression settings for ALL 8 cylinders....if 'the mechanic' cannot provide those...FIND ANOTHER MECHANIC! What Specifically does the vacuum gauge say when connected to the manifold vacuum port.
If it truly was a lobe it would show up in the compression and vacuum tests
Occam's Razor...do the simple stuff first!. Plugs wires cap rotor etc.
Then make sure that the TPS is exactly in the center of it's voltage range.
Good luck...I too have a 82 CFI CE
UnkaHal
The issue is that the metal from the camshaft had to go somewhere.... and I'm sure it went through the bearings.
This reminds me of a funny story where a customer built the engine on his car, didn't use any pre-lube... and it wiped the cam lobe in 100 miles... not to mention the fact that he left the engine full of straight water for 5 years before he brought it to me.
When he brought the car to us all he wanted was the camshaft changed and re-installed... it doesn't work that way. We pulled the camshaft, sent a camera into the cam journals and showed him the damage to the bearings, then we pull two of the main caps and showed him the main caps that were scored... Simply put, I told him if he just wanted the camshaft replaced he'd have to take it somewhere else and if he wanted it done the right way we'd fix him up....
Last edited by Willcox Corvette; Nov 5, 2018 at 05:26 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,232
Likes: 1,232
From: PHX AZ
In addition to what Mr Wilcox said...I would pull the offending push-rod and roll it on a glass plate....I've seen bent push-rods allow virtually no movement on the rocker.
(Video wouldn't play only audio...which was pretty useless!) LOL
Good Luck! Unckahal
(Video wouldn't play only audio...which was pretty useless!) LOL
Good Luck! Unckahal
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Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 76,656
Likes: 1,851
From: Jeffersonville Indiana 812-288-7103
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
easy to check... but my money is on the camshaft is toast.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 13,082
Likes: 3,399
From: SW Florida.
I usually am a believer in rebuilding existing engine, but 180? Too tired. Do the Radley Chevy new engine. Plus it is not a chain rebuild. They bore every engine to .040 cuz changing setups is too much wasted time. Same with heads. Cut every seat in too far. Also, everything else on that car has 180 on it. These cars weren't built to run that long.every component on that Beastie is tired.
Last edited by derekderek; Nov 5, 2018 at 08:25 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 188
Likes: 40
From: Rockaway NJ
Just a quick update. I decided to replace the engine as opposed to rebuilding the existing. As noted above a car with high mileage like this probably would not benefit from any numbers matching engine.. my goal is simply to end up with a clean reliable car that I can enjoy driving to shows etc on weekends. So while the mechanic is swapping engine parts, I climbed into the empty engine bay to do some much needed cleaning. I plan to paint as much of the frame as I can reach, and get it looking halfway decent. The oil pan sump was full of metal sludge, another indicator of major engine wear. So I’ll post a few pictures as the project progresses.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,232
Likes: 1,232
From: PHX AZ
WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE CAM! post THAT pick, please.
I love the Wilcox team....but a bit of friendly rivalry (in my mind) exists LOL.
Too late now, because I couldn't view the video....I've seen rocker arms pop off the valve and of course all kinds of stuff and nasty noises happen...but its an easy fix.
Cheers and good luck with the new mill.
UnkaHal
I love the Wilcox team....but a bit of friendly rivalry (in my mind) exists LOL.
Too late now, because I couldn't view the video....I've seen rocker arms pop off the valve and of course all kinds of stuff and nasty noises happen...but its an easy fix.
Cheers and good luck with the new mill.
UnkaHal
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 6,692
Likes: 29
From: Texas
I'd ask around your local car clubs and see where they take their machine work to... I'm sure there is a good reputable shop. What makes it bad for me is I was around when Jasper started building these engines and at the dealership we'd stay away from them.
Or... option 2:
GM offers a crate stock motor replacement, p/n 12681429 which is the old 10067353 target motor just under a different number. We used to buy these by the truck load because they were cheap and came with an awesome warranty.
It was designed as a replacement for trucks, and has quite a bit more horse power. We used to buy these things for 1000.00, (not any more) then switch the camshaft to a 350/350 cam...
The warranty was 3 years and 100k miles and if you had an issue with the engine GM would replace it for free..... labor included.
If we swapped out the cam and the engine tanked we'd just keep our mouth shut about the cam swap and the only loss was the cam... I will say this, in over thirty plus years of selling what was called a "target master" engine, I only had two defective ones... One was missing a nut off the rocker arm and the other one was installed in the local country police car. The issue with the second one was that when you have an oil cooler and you blow an engine you're supposed to replace it. They didn't and it cooked the engine in about 100 miles. GM still warrantied it.
I just checked this engine number and you can find them all over the place from 1800 2300 bucks... This might be another option. Bradley Chev. has them at this link for 1789.99 free shipping which I can honestly say, you won't touch this price.
https://www.ebay.com/i/291443660544?chn=ps
But.. here my caveat; It's been 20 years since I carried the target motors, so look at the link and give them a call to verify that the warranty hasn't changed. If you go this route, you'll still get to at least keep the original block with the car.
Oh.. thanks for the props on the interior.
Ernie
Or... option 2:
GM offers a crate stock motor replacement, p/n 12681429 which is the old 10067353 target motor just under a different number. We used to buy these by the truck load because they were cheap and came with an awesome warranty.
It was designed as a replacement for trucks, and has quite a bit more horse power. We used to buy these things for 1000.00, (not any more) then switch the camshaft to a 350/350 cam...
The warranty was 3 years and 100k miles and if you had an issue with the engine GM would replace it for free..... labor included.
If we swapped out the cam and the engine tanked we'd just keep our mouth shut about the cam swap and the only loss was the cam... I will say this, in over thirty plus years of selling what was called a "target master" engine, I only had two defective ones... One was missing a nut off the rocker arm and the other one was installed in the local country police car. The issue with the second one was that when you have an oil cooler and you blow an engine you're supposed to replace it. They didn't and it cooked the engine in about 100 miles. GM still warrantied it.
I just checked this engine number and you can find them all over the place from 1800 2300 bucks... This might be another option. Bradley Chev. has them at this link for 1789.99 free shipping which I can honestly say, you won't touch this price.
https://www.ebay.com/i/291443660544?chn=ps
But.. here my caveat; It's been 20 years since I carried the target motors, so look at the link and give them a call to verify that the warranty hasn't changed. If you go this route, you'll still get to at least keep the original block with the car.
Oh.. thanks for the props on the interior.
Ernie
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 188
Likes: 40
From: Rockaway NJ
Just to bring closure to this thread, I bought a rebuilt engine core from Jasper, out of Indiana. The original core was sent back to Jasper. I did not request that the camshaft be exposed before the engine was shipped. It was pretty clear that the cam lobe was rounded out and this is the time period where a known problem of soft metal cams was identified. I don’t have the final bill yet but it will be slightly north of $5g, including the engine block. So along with the engine, the original matching numbers went too. I really don’t believe that the value of this car going forward will be affected by a non numbers matching engine. My kids can worry about that.
I took the time to jump into the empty engine bay and do some serious cleaning, sanding and painting. I don’t yet have the car back but it’s essentially complete and has been running. My mechanic is a stickler for detail and neatness. I found a crack in the exhaust manifold. That was repaired. New water pump, new engine mounts and new bolts in the key areas. Almost all of the rubber components had previously been replaced by me.
So the engine has been restored to its original Corp Blue and it really looks great. So that’s the story.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,673
Likes: 965
From: CENTCOM, Tampa, FL
USMC
Happy ending, I like it!
I have a GMPP crate motor in my ‘66 and would rather drive than wring my hands and wet the bed about numbers.
I agree - my kids can worry about that crap...Cars are for driving.
Have fun with that new power plant!
I have a GMPP crate motor in my ‘66 and would rather drive than wring my hands and wet the bed about numbers.
I agree - my kids can worry about that crap...Cars are for driving.
Have fun with that new power plant!