Hello All,

Had an interesting day yesterday, as a friend had asked me to tow his race car that the motor has seemed to have given up the ghost. He said he wasn't too concerned as he had a new motor to put into this old Chevy race car (not a Corvette). He tried to start it, but the engine didn't seem to have a compression sound...made a few compression blip sounds, but mostly whined. He seems to think that he's spun a crank bearing. So asked him what the motor in it was and he replied that it was a 1972 LT- 1 motor. He said he's owned the car for 25 years, and that's what it came with when he bought it. He told me that he had looked up a long time ago the engine info and that's how he knew it was a '72 LT-1 motor.

We couldn't get the car started, and as he was going in and out of his place of work, decided to look at the stamp pad, because had said to him that "perhaps with the VIN, can search some forums/registries and try to reunite the motor with the car." When had first wiped off years of grime on the right side of the pad, had seen the assembly date and the suffix code read "CKZ". Said to myself, that seems familiar and correct from memory for a '72 LT-1 motor. Decided to check online and did a double take when had seen that it's a suffix code for a ZR-1 motor.

Went back to the pad and wiped off the left side of the pad, only to find no VIN on it. So, the thought that came to mind is that someone bought this motor from a Chevy dealership years ago, but still not understanding why the ZR-1 suffix code and not just an LT-1 code, as am thinking that there isn't any difference in the motor...just the M-22 and handling/braking items, amongst other non-engine items.

Anyone have any ideas on this motor and it's designation...and what is it's value?

Thanks

 

a picture of the stamp pad would help a lot

 

Didn't take one, as am quite familiar with font, spacing, placing, etc. Also am quite confident that it is an original stamping.

 

An over the counter block would not have that code. Somebody stamped it.

 

Am in agreement with you in that wouldn't think that it would have that code from a dealership, hence the reason for the post questioning why it does. Can only tell you that the car that it's in is...well, lets just say that the block is probably worth more than it. And am very confident that the owner would not know what a 70-72 ZR-1 is, much less knew they even existed...and has owned it 25 years. Am very confident that this block hasn't been restamped and is an original Flint stamping. And the previous longtime owner had that motor in the same car...again, the car is anything but special.

Does anyone know if there is any other place that the VIN could have been stamped?

 

You seem to know all about this engine, yet you’re asking questions about value and unwilling or unable to post photos of the pad. It’s not like someone is going to recreate a car considering there’s no VIN on the block. Why not just post your question, photos of the engine and pad, and let the forum respond.

 

Engine code but no VIN and no Vxxx, this was never installed in a car that left the factory.

 

Am not sure how "You seem to know all about this engine," is ascertained from me seeing or knowing about the motor for the first time yesterday by asking a couple of questions and looking at the stamp pad. Also did look for the casting number and was able to see through the grime that it is an 010 block. Searching for a casting date would have been quite a task of cleaning, while stretched out over the engine compartment. Was simply helping out a good guy, single dad who needs some help...and thought it would be worthwhile to pose the question of what is this motor about and what's it possible value is on this forum. Again, am trying to potentially help out someone...which is why had originally said to him that if it's an LT-1 block, would volunteer to help track down the car if it exists, as the motor would be valuable to it's owner.

The car is now about 35 minutes from me, so it's not like am able to run over to his brother's house to start photographing the engine on a whim. And didn't realize that people would want to see what it looks like, as opposed to potentially answering the questions that had posed.

And as am thinking about it, posting a picture of the stamp pad would probably induce PM's of the dark underbelly of the Corvette world to me that would want a block like this to stamp in a VIN to create a ZR-1...am not that naive to think that this kind of unscrupulous behavior doesn't occur.

Am hoping some of the knowledgeable members would have an idea what this engine is about, rather than making a spectacle of this through a picture.

Thanks

 

Am thinking you're correct, in that it didn't leave the factory installed in a car. Not sure what you meant with "no Vxxx"...it does have an assembly date on it.

 

You actually think a picture would induce the “dark underbelly”. LOL!! Don’t you think that would happen without a picture too? If your asking value it sounds like there might be intent to sell. Or did you only intend to sell it to the person who’s car it came out of. I would think that would require a picture or two. However, it’s already clear even without a picture that it did not come from any car. So does this mean it’s now not for sale because of the dark underbelly? If so then everything we come up with now is moot anyway, correct? This is what I’m getting from your posts.

But to try to answer your question in a serious way here is what I think.

Its most likely a restamp. They have been restamping blocks for over 35 years. Anyone with a real ZR1 would need more than just a block to expect anyone to believe the car is an original. Just restamping a block that might be for sale isn’t enough to recreate a car. The dark underbelly is smarter than that. They usually create cars that would not be as scrutinized as a ZR1.

If you really think the block is real have CCAS inspect the engine. It’s well known that the stamps used by the assembly plants and the fonts used by them are readily available and have been used by restampers for years. The vin stamps are not as common and most often wrong and easier to spot as wrong. Those fonts are the ones that are not replicated as well yet someone does have a nice set out there somewhere. I’ve seen some nice fakes but most are bad fakes. But the broach marks can not be replicated in a way that can fool the CCAS system. They look at and compare the metal cuts and match them up with the ones from when the blocks were originally cut. Same method used by ballistic investigators. Pretty ingenious.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Claims like these come up pretty often. And so far since I’ve been on here, none have ever panned out that I have seen. But I guess there is always a first time. Don’t take the responses personally. This is just what happens when someone makes a highly incredible claim. With no pictures to boot. And that’s what this is. If I made a claim like this, I would expect the same responses.

Didn’t we just have a thread last week about someone finding a 1970 ZR1 engine with a vin stamp that turned out to be bogus? It looked pretty good but they screwed up the first character of the vin. These things happen often. We are a skeptical bunch for good reason. Like you said, dark underbelly. Maybe the dark underbelly has already had its fingers on this motor.

To answer your question of value it all depends on the pictures. If it is a real stamped ZR1 over the counter engine then someone who has a ZR1 with a missing engine might spend a decent amount on it. Hard to say how much since I’ve never seen it happen. But since they only made a handful of the cars, there is not a large pool of owners looking for one. Rarity alone doesn’t make something valuable. You also need demand/desirability. While it is desirable, there isn’t a huge demand for it because the cars do not exist in large enough numbers. For someone to spend a lot on it to try to create a fake would be a big gamble. They would have to get the vin stamp perfect. Make perfect fake paperwork, etc. Good luck with that.

Hopefully you can get pics, if not, hopefully what’s in these threads can help you enough to help your friend.

 

The date format, V for Flint followed by a 4 digit number, two for month and two for day of month. This is found on the pad in front of the engine code.
So the question is, did you see Vxxxx in front of the engine code?

 

Without a vin on the block how can it be traced to a car?
If it was a replacement LT1 engine would it have a CE or the CKE? It has the correct piston cam, windage tray etc?
Few LT1 engines have sold here they didnt bring huge $. Curious to see how the hunt goes.

 

It is possible to get a Service OTC engine with a "production" assembly stamp.. IF the engine was not used for a production, then after 1972 model year ended the remaining engines with Assembly Stamps would be used for Service replacement. You didn't think they decked them all OR ground them out and stamped them with CE did you? .

 

That is a very possible scenario.

 

What is the difference between the LT-1 code and the ZR-1 code? CKZ is CKZ no matter how you slice it.....1972 350/255 hp. What makes it a ZR-1 code?

Jebby

 

It is hard to give you advice on the block without appropriate pictures. A lot can happen to a corvette over the years and re-stamps have been going on back the late 80's.

 

CKZ was used four times by Chevrolet as an engine code. One was the 1972 LT-1 engine. Three times as an L-48 (1973, 1974, 1977).

http://casting.brianesser.com/engine...more%20rows%20

CKZ 1972 350 LT-1 HD 4 SPD L LT1 255 4 Vette
CKZ* 1973 350 4 SPD J L48 190 4 Vette
CKZ** 1974 350 4 SPD J L48 195 4 Vette
CKZ*** 1977 350 L48 L 180 4 Vette

75% odds that this is just a 2 bolt L-48.

 

I think CKY is a standard LT1 with M21 4 speed and CKZ is LT1 with M22 4 speed (ZR1 package)

 

Not necessarily. CKY is the standard LT-1. CKZ is the LT-1 HD (w/ M-22). ZR-1 requires the M-22 but you can have an LT-1 with M-22 without it being a ZR-1. ZR-1 is a subset of the LT-1/M-22 population.

 

I’m not sure about that.

At least not in 1972 according to the literature I have from NCRS. In 1972 they only offered the M22 in the ZR1, hence the code CKZ requires the M22 but the standard code would not be the M22. Acccording to the production records of 1972 they produced 20 cars with the M22, which is the same amount as ZR1’s for 1972. I am not sure if the M22 was offered in any LT1 unless it was the the ZR1 package as the numbers indicate that would not be so. I am sure it was not offered in 1970 or 1972 according the numbers I have. Those year production number show the amount of M22’s made corresponding to the exact amount of ZR1’s made. 1971 is confusing as the M22 could also be had with the standard LS6 and ZR2. They made 130 Vettes with the M22 in 1971. That would include all ZR1, LS6 and ZR2’s but since the LS6 came with an M40 as well the numbers do not correspond but it’s most likely they only came in the LS6 and ZR1.

I am no expert on these year cars, I have studied the 69’s in depth for many years but that’s about it. So if I’m wrong I apologize.