Hello. New member here, but i've lurked this site for near a decade. Probably spent more time here than some veteran posters, but until now i've had no need to post. I'm from Moparland, and have built and driven (mainly) E-bodies for nearly 30 years. Most ov that time was spent pretty much trying to turn a Challenger or Cuda into a Corvette... so i figured why not just get the car i need? Well, now i've finally decided i need a Corvette in my life (4-season daily driver), and armed with what i've learned here (and there) over the years, i've got it narrowed down to a pretty thin list. I'll probably ask questions here about stuff no one ever thinks about, but i'm **** about certain things, and i absolutely want to start with the right car. So... here goes...


I want to make something clear here... i dont have a great budget, i never will... and its less than you're thinking it is. That said, i want a 1969 4-speed coupe, and i'm determined to have one. I will not compromise on that. Even if i have to build one from a newer car (which i must). The only other stipulation i have is that it is light LIGHT LIGHT (which is how poor people go fast). I like small block cars and NO options. 68-9's start at around 18K here (near Vancouver BC), and i have maybe half that. I'd MUCH prefer to drive my project while building it, so buying a basketcase 68-9 in my budget range is out. I do realize that the 68-9's are lighter.


So it looks like i'll be buying a 75-81 and slowly converting it to steel bumpers, 68-9 grilles/gills, and the other small details. I had figured 75-77, so i didn't have to change the rear window, and they are the cheapest by far... but i've just spent days researching the weight loss in 80-81, and now i'm open to getting either ov those too, and just dropping a whole new 68-9 *** on it eventually. They are so much lighter it would be worth the effort. I see the very occasional 73 for sale, and i'd only have to convert the front end on that, but they're still spendy and they go fast when they're in my range.


I've read pretty much every single weight reduction thread here in the last 10 years, and it is definitely worth my time and grief to wait for the right car. My next door neighbor has a pretty nice bone-stock 76 L82 4speed car he wants to sell (10K, so about $7600usd?), that needs some wiring, interior, and (minor) brake work. Probably down to 7-8K once i sell off the new rollers i dont like and other parts i wont use (full new interior). Thats about 6K usd. But its a bit too pretty to hack, and its right in those heavy mid-years... so lots to do to 'de-smog/luxury/safety-mandate' it.


It might sound like OCD thinking, but i've gotten into then abandoned a couple cool projects because at the end ov the day, they weren't the right car to start with, and they'd never be as good as if i'd just waited for the right car. I dont want to do that here. The interchangeability between 68-82 Corvettes is actually pretty damn impressive.



So, just a long-winded intro and no questions, aside from am i the only one here that thinks this way? The really annoying questions come later...

 

Before anyone else pipes in, I would say to you that if you have the passion and desire to build a later model into a 69 Couple....you can do it. It will be alot of labor, and some money, but others have done it. If you have lurked here, you know it. Some will say its better to just save up and buy the right car,.....but ten years will go buy while you are waiting, if you are really on a budget, which I understand. Not everyone who owns a Corvette is a rich guy, but many here seem to be, or do not have the real passion for owning and driving the car.

I would also be careful of some of the rear bumper conversions (rubber to chrome) posted here, because while they might look pretty good, they are not the same as the real thing. The best conversions are the ones that replace / modify the rear clip / fenders and deck and make the required frame modifications. The basic frame is 90% same on all C3 Vettes, with the exception of the 80-82 years, and if I did it, I would convert the frame to exactly a 69 configuration. On the rear end, from the kick ups back would need changed, on the front end, it appears much easier. Of course, at some point, this requires some extensive work and downtime, but again, if you want to do it, and you are motivated, it can be done in reasonable time. This stuff also does cost money, so you will have to be careful to not end up spending as much as finding a good 69 project,....which is a point some may make. It just all depends on what you want to do, and the parts you find for doing it.

 

WELCOME!

You and I think a lot alike. I am very interested in and have gone down the lightening path for the last several years, including a few of the update parts from the 80-81. I just changed my wheels from very heavy Rallys last weekend so I am down about 286lbs from stock on my 69 now.

The only advise I will give is that it is a fallacy that lightening is inexpensive. Sure, there are a handful of things that are inexpensive to do but to really drop significant weigh takes some real money and/or labor. The biggest single drop in weight come from heads and brake calipers, aluminum heads and Willwood calipers are not cheap.

Unless you have access to free junkyard parts (early c4 heads, light weight starter and brake master cylinder from trucks) and mad fabrication skills (brake calipers from another car) you will spend more than you plan to. $13/lb loss is about my average so far. Contemporary aluminum wheels, not sand cast wheels made in the 70's, help a lot also but unless you get some used or repurposed from another late model car, they are also expensive.

If the formula of a 6 pounds is worth 1 hp holds true then assumedly I have added the equivalent of 47 hp. A $100 summit camshaft could have probably done the same for strait line performance (not counting better braking and handling performance, gas mileage, etc)

Love to see a build thread of your weight loss journey!

R

 

Hey. Oh i absolutely understand the spend six to save half a dozen issue... but the fact is, to buy a 69, i'll need a lump sum ov cash... a big one... and that just doesn't happen in my world. EVER. I might see a few thousand here and there, and so can mess with it here and there, but to wait and save 20K is just not going to happen. Good thing is, i'm brilliant with what little money i have, and i have never, not once, not in over 40 cars now, lost money on a car. I know i can build a 69 cheaper than i can buy one. Certainly not the easiest way to run a choochoo... but say, buying a 7K car now, doing the bumper conversions in a year for say 2-3K, then the rest down the road as money comes... while driving it the whole time, sounds absolutely possible.

I have things going for me:
1, i dont like pretty cars, so the bodywork needn't be perfect. I love patina.
2, my vision is a custom one, and that is always cheaper than stock parts. I can often fab a piece cheaper than buying one.
3, i am well-connected where i live and very good at scrounging parts (used to be my main income actually).
4, i can personally do everything involved.
5, I'm also surrounded by Chevy friends. As a Mopar guy for 30 years this has been hell... but if i buy a Chevy you can bet your *** i'm gonna take advantage ov it. I'll never have to buy an engine part! Haha

About the only thing i'm worried about is patience. I haven't been this excited to build a car in a decade. I've been driving new cars ('96-2008) for about as long, and i'm sick to death ov new cars. I miss daily driving a loud, cold, wet, obnoxious, ratty, zero-optioned V8/stick dinosaur. Heh... i fear my impatience to get started might put me into the wrong car. So far though, my neighbors L82 is speaking the loudest. We'll see...

 

As for weight loss, when I did the body off rebuild of my 77, I reduced the weight by at least 350 lbs, getting the car close to what a 69 weighs. I had it weighed on local scale, and was happy I got the weight down to what early Corvettes weighed. The crash protection bumpers of 75 and later are heavy, but they also provide real crash protection, unlike the cosmetic joke of bumpers on earlier years. I could have went further in eliminating most of the bumper protection, and saved even more weight, but the protection does have a value. The crash protection in an early Corvette is a joke. Here is a list of what I did to lose weight.

- Aluminum cylinder heads
- Aluminum intake manifold
- Steel headers versus cast iron headers
- Aluminum radiator
- Converted power to manual steering - love it.
- Converted power to manual brakes
- No airconditioning in my car -T-tops off 90% of the time, with windows down.....that is what a Corvette is all about.
- Removed most EPA garbage - still use factory charcoal canister for fuel venting
- Removed some pieces of the front and rear bumpers, but not the big stuff - this stuff IS heavy, mostly bolt ons. If weight loss is more important than protection, there is alot to gain here and I think represents the differences between early and late Corvettes. I converted to fiberglass bumpers, and some of the pieces of the bumpers were there to support the rubber bumpers, which is not needed with fiberglass. And of course, most of it needs to go away anyways to build a 69 Vette.
- Replaced Rallye wheels with modern YJ8 aluminum wheels
- Replaced steel spring with composite rear spring - another big savings....40lbs versus 8 lbs.
- Removed radio system, including radio, wiring, antenna and speakers - no need for music when you have a V8
- Removed spare tire - I left the spare tire carrier because I like the look.
- My car had manual windows, but if you have electric windows, replace with manual windows - electric motors are heavier
- I did not reinstall any window washer stuff......don't need it. I do have wipers.
- I removed all "alarm" system components
- The doors on later model cars have a large steel waffle plate for crash protection. Earlier cars did not have them. My 77 does have these, and I left them in place, but if you wanted light, you could either try to remove them by cutting them out??? or buy and fit earlier doors.
- Later cars have a steel shroud around the gas tank for crash / fire protection. I considered leaving it out, because it IS heavy, but I stuck with it for the wife and for visions of dying in a rear crash fire.

While I agree weight loss is a good motivation, even with all I did, I only removed around 350 plus pounds, close to the difference in weights between late and early C3's, but does represent a 10% decrease in weight

But then think about how the car drives when you are alone versus with a passenger.....is it really that noticeable on the street? And what about how the car feels when gas tank is full, versus when it is closer to empty.?? I am sure at a drag strip it is measurable, but in street driving I wonder. But of course, its relative. In reality, I did most of my changes to make the car simpler, as well as to increase some performance on the engine. This year I replaced the 350 with a 406, changing the power side of the power to weight ratio.....and hope that next spring, I will enjoy that.

 

I'm sure you've read all of @Bee Jay's weight loss posts. If you are replacing all of the fiberglass anyway, it may not help much in the end, but my 80 left the factory 250 lbs lighter than @Bee Jay's 78 or my wife's 79. A lot of that was in the fiberglass, but some was in the frame, differential, seats, doors, and other places. The steel to composite rear spring mod is low-hanging fruit and worth 35 lbs by itself.

I love my simple 80 4-speed, with no AC, no radio, and manual steering. Good luck with creating the car that speaks to you!

 

You know... i'm absoutely going to challenge you on that fallacy bit. I understand... i do... but though not with Chevies (which should be even easier) i have been conducting weight-reduction voodoo for almost 30 years. My last old car was a 72 440 Charger SE, all steel, with some rather heavy weight additions... that ended up weighing about what an average 70 340 Cuda weighs. Had an all steel 71 Fury 3 (so, big block luxo-version) that was pure stealth. Had NO money for mods back then, but it weighed 400lbs less than it came, and 95% ov guys wouldn't have noticed anything amiss. I've never even had to break out the holesaw. The first part... the creative part before you get out the wallet, is the best part. This is an art... and being poor, its one i've honed. I'm not even going to say what my ambitions are here. You'll just laugh. I'll only say these cars can be LIGHT... without being clapped-up rattleboxes. And that... you know... is why i'm here.

 

I have read them. And there is a lot to modify to turn an 80-81 aesthetically into a 69, but man... that weight savings... AND... i get to start with a 11-12 year newer car, AND... i like a lot ov the changes/upgrades, AND... they did tend to iron out a lot ov the issues early cars had, AND... well, i could go on. There is so much WIN in starting with an 80-81 that it might just be worth that entire ***-end swap. The front end is a simple front clip swap. Well... as simple as Corvettes make it anyways...

You bring up points that bother me though. I've never once seen anyone here answer the questions on HOW lighter the FG body was, and how much lighter the later frames were. That would be good data to have. I'll make a post about that soon...

Your car sounds like the perfect starting point. I drove a 71 Fury 3 (started out as a 4300lb car) with manual brakes and steering for years. Wouldn't phase me in the least... not even with 295's up front.

 

I actually answered your first post... first. Not sure where it went...???

Yeah, a true 69 Vette would be a joke in an accident. But i drove an early stripped-out Pinto for a year (was gonna swap a V8 in), and i'd take that 69 Vette over a tin Pinto. Just think like you're on a motorbike... As long as the thing has a solid ROOF... i'm good. My last car was a 2000 Celica GTS, and while far more modern and well-built, it was still 2500lbs wet and the size ov a dumpster lid. Actually got into a rather catastrophic accident in that one... not a scratch. Wouldn't matter anyways... i'm a gambler...

Its not so much about seat-o-the-pants... its about everything. Lighter cars go faster, stop quicker, turn better, use less gas, have less wear on parts, are generally simpler (i like simple too), and are easier to deal with if you do get in a pinch. This new direction ov cars getting fatter and fatter every year and model disgusts me. You watch how light i get this thing... and how few car guys notice when they walk past. Cant wait.

 

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-79-frame.html

I believe it is about 20# but knowing the wall thickness difference you could calculate it. I have read that a rusty/scaly early frame can be as much as 70# lighter than a perfect frame due to loss

 

Hah! Yeah.... i'll take that weight if it means a stronger frame. I had an EXTREMELY rusty 70 Stage 1 Buick when i was a teenager... I should have died... many many times in that car. Nope nope nope.

Heh... well, you could calculate it if you could get two Corvette guys anywhere to agree on what a frame actually weighs. I seem to read an average ov 240-250lbs here though. .120" to .100" is about 17% thinner. Is it as easy as dropping 17% off 240-250lbs? Thats 40-47lbs. ~ish... THAT... is substantial. Itsnot just wall thickness either it seems... i just saw a pic ov an 80 rear frame and it wasn't even boxed. The earlier ones are. Might be even more differences between them that shave weight. Regardless, i'd swap a frame to save 40lbs. Hell.... i'd swap a frame for 20lbs...

The 80 and its new front end also got rid ov the ol' battering ram' as someone here called it, and the vacuum tube. What they replaced it with, while i have no weights, looks substantially lighter and simpler. There seem only three key parts to the 80-up front structure, one ov them is not even metal (plastic?), and another weighs only 7-8lbs i'm told, so they shaved a PILE off the front on those cars too.


AND... was the FG on the body actually thinner/lighter too? I know the hood and door skins were, but the fenders? body? We all know stock Corvette FG is heavy. Did they address this?

 

Another way you could drop some weight is just get rid of the entire vacuum system to raise and lower the headlights. You can manually push them up or down in about three seconds from outside the car. I operated the car that way a couple years, given my night time driving is about once or twice a year (drive 4000-6000 miles a year). Not sure about the crazy windshield wiper door mechanism on early C3's.....not sure if there is any way to manually make those work. I only drive in the rain if I get caught, so wipers are rarely used, and why I don't need windshield washer tank / pump and hoses.......if it is raining, the rain provides the cleaning fluid. Obviously, our C3 Corvettes do not need to have the same functionality of a daily driver,.....unless you daily drive the C3. And I drive the car 4000-6000 miles a year. Many Corvette owners drive their cars once a month five miles to some parking lot, where they proceed to sit in lawn chairs for two hours and drive home........!!!!

 

Haha... i remember reading somewhere here about a guy manually opening/closing his lights by reaching under the car. That was you? I was gonna ask about that too. Not saying i'll do that (though i could totally see myself doing that)... but i do like options... I do do a LOT ov night driving though. Probably 2/3 ov my mileage happens at night.

If the vacuum system is in good order i'll keep it. If it needs a bit ov work i'll fix it. If its a mess... toss.

I will be daily driving this car. The second its dialed-in and reliable... i'm selling my new Honda (which will buy more parts!). I'll put anywhere from 15 to 30K a year on a car, depending on fuel mileage. Hell... the Charger got 8mpg, and i still ran it 50K in three years. Down the road i actually plan on using a rather small modern V8/OD stick... so with that kind ov mpg i'll be miling the thing up big-time.

It rains 368 days a year here (well, okay... but a lot). Winter is all rain. That said, i've gone two years without working wipers once. Even pulled the system in one car for a while. Rain-X truly is magic. But... you do need a good windshield for best results.

Heh... i like how you think...

 

What is your goal weight?

My 69 is in the neighborhood of 2950# with full, and working, interior. If I gutted the interior, lost the soft top, and used racing seats I'm sure I could get another 100+ pounds off, but not willing to do that.

FAI headlights or glass in popups a must for weight reduction!

 

I'm not going to lay my cards out just yet. I also should really wait until i see what i have to work with. Remember, i haven't bought the car yet. Lets just say my cunning plan... is ambitious...

I have yet to see a non-vacuum/aftermarket/racing headlight treatment that i'm crazy about, but thats research i haven't done yet. WAY too soon. Whatever i do will look stock though, even if it isn't. I'd go all-out Mad Max with a Corvette if i could... but i have a girl who is going to have to like driving in it... a LOT... and i plan many long road trips. It cant be a clapped-out mess. Just... simple. It'll have a heater, and a lightweight stereo (for parking... it'll have 3" X-piped Spintechs for driving music...), thats it for options.