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What's catching your eye Ed, or not ? If I had a "REAL" L-88 and found the tank sticker on the tank, you can be rest assured, I would have several documented, notarized witnesses, as well as plenty of vids & pics of it on, with it being lowered & coming off the tank. Wonder who did the resto ??
I didn't find the video, or any pics of the pad either ???
Last edited by 427SIXPACK; 09-09-2021 at 07:12 PM.
I reached out to the auction company last week and told them the car has a repo trim tag, re-stamped motor and fake tank sticker and just wanted to let him know so he didn't misrepresent the car as a real L88. His response was that the owner he is representing knows these cars and is certain it is real and the paperwork is real. I then sent him a message with a number of other things that are not correct on the car for a real L88 as well as pointing out why it was fake and he decided to still market it as a real L88. The bidding reflects that it is a fake car. The trim tag and tank sticker are so obvious they are fake. I offered to talk to his customer to be helpful, but they weren't interested.
I’m not Ed, but I would imagine he doesn’t like the print format… I know that I don’t. That doesn’t even begin to address the MA-6 clutch that is listed on the build order that wasn’t available with the L-88.
Having said that (and taking into consideration that there aren’t many detailed photos of the car), what you CAN see isn’t horrible bad. There are some finish issues, configuration issues, some missing parts (flame arrestor comes to mind immediately), but nothing really glaring. That assessment might change with some more detailed photos though, especially some of the pad.
What's catching your eye Ed, or not ? If I had a "REAL" L-88 and found the tank sticker on the tank, you can be rest assured, I would have several documented, notarized witnesses, as well as plenty of vids & pics of it on, with it being lowered & coming off the tank. Wonder who did the resto ??
I didn't find the video, or any pics of the pad either ???
Let me start by saying I am NOT saying this isn’t a real L88. It could be, just that the paper is crap.
There are many mistakes with the fonts which I spotted immediately. But I also recognize which forger made this one. It’s interesting that all the repro paper makers have there own nuances and style. One easy thing to spot is the line “HEAD RESTAINTS” should have all the letters lining up with “SPECIAL-PURPOSE”. But you’ll notice that after the hyphen the letters don’t line up in a row. They should. The original sheets were printed on a IBM 1403 high speed dot matrix printer. If you are familiar with how it prints, all the letters/spaces line up all the time. Also the hyphen before PURPOSE should be much closer to the P. There are many more but I don’t want to give away all the mistakes, just a few that would not affect too many other tank stickers. Most cars don’t have F41 so even if they correct that mistake I can pick apart all the others.
Also the hand written number 63 is wrong. It should be 46. I am SURE he wrote 63 on it because that number was found written on the actual body by whoever restored the car and this guy thinks that’s the number that is supposed to be there. Whoever requested the tank sheet was asked what number was found. This forger has made that mistake before. But that is NOT the number that’s supposed to be written there. In 69 they correspond directly to the vin number, either exactly or off by 500.
Last edited by ed427vette; 09-09-2021 at 07:49 PM.
I looked for the video on the auction company’s site… Couldn’t find it. Glad that you did.
Very telling. I agree the trim tag is a reproduction… Engine stamp has some issues (not to mention the surface is completely painted hiding whatever “broach marks” may be there, transmission stamp has issues as well… What’s with the driver side mirror? Looks to be in the early 1968 position. Probably lots of other items in the addition to the ones already mentioned.
I’m not Ed, but I would imagine he doesn’t like the print format… I know that I don’t. That doesn’t even begin to address the MA-6 clutch that is listed on the build order that wasn’t available with the L-88.
Having said that (and taking into consideration that there aren’t many detailed photos of the car), what you CAN see isn’t horrible bad. There are some finish issues, configuration issues, some missing parts (flame arrestor comes to mind immediately), but nothing really glaring. That assessment might change with some more detailed photos though, especially some of the pad.
Regards,
Stan Falenski
Hey Stan!
Hope all is well.
I did NOT know that about the MA6 option not coming with the L88.I did happen to notice today when comparing this one to another real L88 tank sheet that it didn’t have the MA6 option on the real one but just assumed it wasn’t ordered on it. I was comparing some other lines of info of which this guy did get correct. The fake sheet is actually pretty good in that he did get many details correct. Many could get fooled. That’s why we have to call this stuff out…
I reached out to the auction company last week and told them the car has a repo trim tag, re-stamped motor and fake tank sticker and just wanted to let him know so he didn't misrepresent the car as a real L88. His response was that the owner he is representing knows these cars and is certain it is real and the paperwork is real. I then sent him a message with a number of other things that are not correct on the car for a real L88 as well as pointing out why it was fake and he decided to still market it as a real L88. The bidding reflects that it is a fake car. The trim tag and tank sticker are so obvious they are fake. I offered to talk to his customer to be helpful, but they weren't interested. https://vimeo.com/580501545/c984acead6
most dealers / salesmen are all the same
i've called numerous places to point out listing errors that wasted my (and others') time - to which they always just blow you off & never correct it.
even had a few that flat-out told me they'd just wait for someone who didn't know the difference.
When you look side by side you can see the differences. This fake tank sticker was printed with a laser printer then aged not carbon copy imprinted. Also, there are a number of characters that are off from the factory corvette order copies including the "O", "G" too small, the "M" and the "4" just to name a few. In addition there are formatting and alignment issues all over. There were a few changes in how these order copies were printed over the years, but like trim tags and engine stamps, cars around the same build date will have the same nuances. I have found no one out there has been able to reproduce a 100% accurate tank sticker that matches up with the nuances of the the way the plant printed them.
Doing well Ed! Hope all is great on your end as well.
I did NOT know that about the MA6 option not coming with the L88.I did happen to notice today when comparing this one to another real L88 tank sheet that it didn’t have the MA6 option on the real one but just assumed it wasn’t ordered on it. I was comparing some other lines of info of which this guy did get correct. The fake sheet is actually pretty good in that he did get many details correct. Many could get fooled. That’s why we have to call this stuff out…
Yeah, that MA-6 dual disc clutch was specifically for 1969 L-71/L-89 Corvettes as well as some other high performance Chevys (COPO cars [Camaro/Chevelle] were never available with it, but I know some big cars [Impala/Biscayne] with the L-72 were offered with it). L-88s were specifically called out as NOT being available with that clutch. The font on that build order is pretty bad as well. What’s your take on the positraction/rear axle codes? I would expect that to be listed twice… Or was that only for the later 1969s?
I have a database of docs, trim tags, stamp pads etc. for 68-72 that I have collected over the years. Like Ed I love the history of these cars and the documentation. This was off of a copo L88 that was ordered and raced. Here is another L88 tank sticker that is more consistent with typical corvette order copies from the plant...
What’s the story on this car? Some really odd things going on with that build order!
Regards,
Stan
Hello Stan,
Yeah, that particular build sheet is a weird one. It’s not typical. It may have to do with the 456 rear? The reason I say that is because I do not have another build sheet with the 456 which of course could only be ordered with the L88. And the COPO M22 line? Not sure the deal with this one but I have this in my database as well. I think Proteam had this car at one time. It’s real. But it’s odd. Again I wonder if that trans had something added to it because of the very short 456 gears. I just don’t know.
I’ve seen documentation for a few L-88/4.56 cars… Despite the handwritten information, I don’t think that’s it.
What caught my eye was the info in the COPO F&SO box as well as the lack of J-50/J-56. So I did some digging… Build order looks real so the VIN ends 188 or 688. Handwritten number shows 1688. Only sequential number close to the order date of 2/14/69 is 21688. We know again from the build sheet that the car is a convertible so… 194679S721688!
Search on that VIN brings up a yellow and black L-88 race car that was said to be the only one ordered without J-50/J-56. Makes sense. And you’re right, Proteam had the car at one time. Still want to know what the COPO M-22 reference is though. No clue on that one!
I’ve seen documentation for a few L-88/4.56 cars… Despite the handwritten information, I don’t think that’s it.
What caught my eye was the info in the COPO F&SO box as well as the lack of J-50/J-56. So I did some digging… Build order looks real so the VIN ends 188 or 688. Handwritten number shows 1688. Only sequential number close to the order date of 2/14/69 is 21688. We know again from the build sheet that the car is a convertible so… 194679S721688!
Search on that VIN brings up a yellow and black L-88 race car that was said to be the only one ordered without J-50/J-56. Makes sense. And you’re right, Proteam had the car at one time. Still want to know what the COPO M-22 reference is though. No clue on that one!
Regards,
Stan
Yes, good research! I believe the COPO is the removal of the J56. This is the only one without the J56. But the COPO M22 is odd. I remember the story on this car that the race they wanted to run it in, it was felt, was that the J56 brakes would have hindered the car.
How about this. You are ordering the car specifically to go racing. And you order White Stripe tires? Why?
Could the COPO M22 have something to do with a special handling for the speedometer with the drive gear for the 4:56?
The 4.56 rear cars DID receive a speedometer reducer at the transmission, but as mentioned, I've seen the docs for a few of those 4.56 cars and they didn't have this COPO reference. Not sure what to make of it... Good thought though.
09-09-2021, 01:47 PM
