71 Randomly not turning over
Thread Starter
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2
Likes: 1
71 Randomly not turning over
Hello, my 1971 coupe, auto, 350 daily driver has done this to me three times recently. When I drive to destination then turn key to restart, nothing. No click at all.
Notes:
new Battery, confirmed 12v with meter
all wiring front to back is new and clean
starter selenoid brand new
Alternator is new
when I turn the key to start I see the draw in the voltage meter so thinking switch is good however
interesting the power windows do not work either while I am in this situation
Neutral safety switch is also new
Resolution:
connect jumper cables from another car to battery for a second, turn the key and it starts right up without touching anything.
The only old piece of equipment, except switch in column is the starter. I am thinking bad spot on starter.
Hard to triage because need to do this when can not start while not at home.
Suggestions?
Thank you
Notes:
new Battery, confirmed 12v with meter
all wiring front to back is new and clean
starter selenoid brand new
Alternator is new
when I turn the key to start I see the draw in the voltage meter so thinking switch is good however
interesting the power windows do not work either while I am in this situation
Neutral safety switch is also new
Resolution:
connect jumper cables from another car to battery for a second, turn the key and it starts right up without touching anything.
The only old piece of equipment, except switch in column is the starter. I am thinking bad spot on starter.
Hard to triage because need to do this when can not start while not at home.
Suggestions?
Thank you
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 18,692
Likes: 2,572
if you don't even hear a click that indicates that the starter solenoid isn't engaging.
you say all wiring is new and clean, that means new battery cables and the ground under the battery box?
what is the battery voltage exactly with engine on and engine off after sitting for awhile?
you say all wiring is new and clean, that means new battery cables and the ground under the battery box?
what is the battery voltage exactly with engine on and engine off after sitting for awhile?
Last edited by MelWff; Sep 27, 2021 at 12:05 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 8,336
Likes: 2,809
From: Cool Northern Michigan
Just a couple notes about your findings.
The 12V indicates you have proper voltage.
It does not indicate you have proper cranking amps.
When you swapped out the starter solenoid, did you noticed a short GRD strap / cable in that area. It goes to the block. Its almost as important as the GRD at the Batt. You would be surprised at how many of those GRDs cables are missing on C3s.
Because everything is fine, cranks, starts when a jump is involved, that should indicate the starter / solenoid & IGN switch are fine.
I would pull the Batt and have it load tested. Even new batteries can be crap right from the git-go. They sit on shelves for months without any charging induced.
Also, because it jump starts fine, perhaps the alligator clamps of the jumper cables are helping a otherwise ****-poor battery terminal connections.
Those side-post batteries are notorious for false connections because basically they are a blind connection as opposed to top-post.
The 12V indicates you have proper voltage.
It does not indicate you have proper cranking amps.
When you swapped out the starter solenoid, did you noticed a short GRD strap / cable in that area. It goes to the block. Its almost as important as the GRD at the Batt. You would be surprised at how many of those GRDs cables are missing on C3s.
Because everything is fine, cranks, starts when a jump is involved, that should indicate the starter / solenoid & IGN switch are fine.
I would pull the Batt and have it load tested. Even new batteries can be crap right from the git-go. They sit on shelves for months without any charging induced.
Also, because it jump starts fine, perhaps the alligator clamps of the jumper cables are helping a otherwise ****-poor battery terminal connections.
Those side-post batteries are notorious for false connections because basically they are a blind connection as opposed to top-post.
Last edited by HeadsU.P.; Sep 27, 2021 at 05:53 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 750
Likes: 180
From: Springfield Missouri
The first thing I'd do is have the battery load tested, could be a weak cell. The easiest is to check all connections especially the grounds. If all that checks good pull the starter and check the brushes inside. They are easy to replace and if it's the original starter they are probably worn to the point they need replaced.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 23,367
Likes: 1,061
From: Virginia USA
Also check your voltage while cranking. You may have 12v static but it should stay above 10 volts or so while cranking. If it drops below 10 something is wrong with it.
As HeadsU.P said. Check your starter to frame ground in the engine bay.
As HeadsU.P said. Check your starter to frame ground in the engine bay.
Last edited by theandies; Sep 27, 2021 at 04:24 PM.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 479
Likes: 106
From: Beamsville Ontario
Just finishing off a frame off restoration on my 71 automatic and ran in to a similar problem…intermittent starting. Half the time it would start no issue but the other times it did what you describe. I eventually tracked it down to the neutral safety switch on the gear selector. Quick adjustment and the problem went away. Not saying that is your issue but it’s something else to check….Good Luck!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,156
Likes: 273
From: Dunedin NZ.
I had this issue and it was the electrical contacts in the key switch were worn. replaced this and no more problems. The electrical contacts are mounted on top of the steering column under the dash.
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 219
Likes: 101
From: North Carolina
Many replies same here…I had the same thing on my 73 but not a daily driver…started fine mostly. Yeah you could tap the solenoid etc I just replaced the solenoid and it went away. Keep the starter it’s probably fine (and date coded) just solenoid should do it.
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Thread Starter
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2
Likes: 1
Thank you all for your input, it is very helpful.
When MelWff asked about cables I did not mention the battery cable to ground and starter are original. Headlights, engine bay, dash, power windows and rear lights are all new harnesses.
When HeadsU.P. mentioned the alligator clamps I started wondering the same thing. Why does it start so easily and quickly as soon as the clamps are connected and jump auto running, without doing anything else. So I pulled off the cables at the battery, removed any damaged ends, cleaned and reconnected. Also removed and cleaned the ground on the frame under the battery. Frame was sandblasted and painted so made sure this was clean spot as well.
For MelWiff, here are the voltage readings you requested:
Sitting, not running: 12.0
Cranking 10.3
Engine running at idle: 13.3
After running for about one minute: 12.5
Interesting again today started right up no issues, maybe cleaning the cables helped but not sure at this point.
I will continue to monitor but please offer any other ideas.
Thank you
When MelWff asked about cables I did not mention the battery cable to ground and starter are original. Headlights, engine bay, dash, power windows and rear lights are all new harnesses.
When HeadsU.P. mentioned the alligator clamps I started wondering the same thing. Why does it start so easily and quickly as soon as the clamps are connected and jump auto running, without doing anything else. So I pulled off the cables at the battery, removed any damaged ends, cleaned and reconnected. Also removed and cleaned the ground on the frame under the battery. Frame was sandblasted and painted so made sure this was clean spot as well.
For MelWiff, here are the voltage readings you requested:
Sitting, not running: 12.0
Cranking 10.3
Engine running at idle: 13.3
After running for about one minute: 12.5
Interesting again today started right up no issues, maybe cleaning the cables helped but not sure at this point.
I will continue to monitor but please offer any other ideas.
Thank you