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Hey all I ran across this engine pad. I am not interested in buying the car and in fact I don’t remember the details but I find the pad interesting. What does everyone think?
The vin stamp runs into the engine stamping. If I’m not mistaken these were two separate gang stamps. Correct? If so I guess they were just being careless.
The major issue is the sinking”Y”. It doesn’t line up and seems to be a heavier strike then the rest. The fonts don’t look to bad to me but????
First off, I have to say that it is almost impossible to positively affirm a pad with only a photo. You can rule one out with a photo, but I want to see a pad in person before I make a decision to call a pad real.
The thickness of the characters is what is throwing me, but I’m wondering if that isn’t an optical illusion. I’ve seen the letters in the broadcast code stamped individually… Not often, but it happens.
The broach marks look good… Shape of the characters look good. Couple of other things I look for are also in evidence.
It looks pretty good from what I see… Certainly worth a closer look.
Thanks Stan for the quick response. Agreed that this is not enough to rule a pad in or out but I posted it to help better educate me with pads that have some variation. my question to you is why would the engine pad stamping be done by individual characters? Were these not all done with the gang stamp? I know many things can happen but I can’t think of a situation.
Also just to clarify am I correct in assuming that the Vin stamping and the engine stamping were not done at the same time nor with the same gang stamp those the positional variations. As always greatly appreciated, thank you. Ike
Thanks Stan for the quick response. Agreed that this is not enough to rule a pad in or out but I posted it to help better educate me with pads that have some variation. my question to you is why would the engine pad stamping be done by individual characters? Were these not all done with the gang stamp? I know many things can happen but I can’t think of a situation.
This is actually one of the times you see it. Someone forgets to put the last (or last couple) character in the gang holder… Oops, I can fix that though. Where is that last character… I’ll just add it.
Also just to clarify am I correct in assuming that the Vin stamping and the engine stamping were not done at the same time nor with the same gang stamp those the positional variations. As always greatly appreciated, thank you. Ike
They we’re not. The engine assembly/broadcast code was done at the engine assembly plant (either Flint or Tonawanda for our cars). The VIN derivative was done at the vehicle assembly plant (St. Louis or Bowling Green for the late build cars). Also noteworthy is that the transmission was stamped with the VIN derivative within about thirty seconds of when the engine was stamped. As such, they should look identical.
Stan thank again for sharing your knowledge. Now I get it. Although you would think that the gang stamp would be designed in such a way that without all the characters in there it could not be used.
Thanks as well for clarifying the Vin number stamp. I thought that was the case but I just wanted to verify. I also knew that it’s a good to compare the engine vin to the transmission stamping to see if any funny going on. Ike
Guys where is the vin number located on a 73 manual tranny? I took a few pictures of the tranny as I was installing the back up light switch, and saw a number of different number sequences, plus a metal strip with numbers on it.
Thanks
The baseline alignment of the VIN sequence looks wonky to me, especially with the 639 that seems to be gradually descending with the 7 jumping up again. A similar appearance for the engine code is happening with the elevated 7 and dropping CKY. I'm certainly no expert on stampings but this one is troubling to me
Eliredandblack, I am doing this from memory but this is the Vin number is stamped on the vertical part of the case on the passenger
side next to the transmission identification info as well. This area is exposed to much of the road dirt so in theory it might be so covered in filth you don’t realize that it’s there. Sorry I can’t be more specific I’m sure someone will chime in if I’m incorrect. Ike
Last edited by general ike; Jan 5, 2022 at 11:22 PM.
Hmm someone posts this interesting bit information but the post is gone. Here is another. They appear be both1972 LT-1s
Interesting in that they are about 3 or days apart in the production run. Even more interesting is the first one is up for sale and the 2 and the S are transposed on the pillar vin.
Lots of factory confusion. They both are possibly correct with some evidence to confirm the stamping. New hires??? New run?(it started in August) Early holiday parties? Hmmmm
Eliredandblack, I am doing this from memory but this is the Vin number is stamped on the vertical part of the case on the passenger side next to the transmission identification info as well. This area is exposed to much of the road dirt so in theory it might be so covered in filth you don’t realize that it’s there. Sorry I can’t be more specific I’m sure someone will chime in if I’m incorrect. Ike
Correct, on the passenger side above the transmission drain plug you will see General Motors Corp., to the left is the transmission code and the vin stamp. The vin stamp should match the vin stamp on the engine pad.
Ed
Thanks for posting. The car to the first engine stamp is a Nov build date so the suffix stamp date fits. However I have a number of 72 LT1 stamps and much later cars had earlier engine suffix date stamps than this car. The LT1 motors were built in batches so it is not uncommon to see a motor stamped form Flint Michigan months before the built date. The production numbers were low on the LT1's and the engines didn't get used up as fast as the base motor cars for example. Here are a few examples of later LT1's built with earlier engines and vin stamps to compare. I would need to see better pictures of the first stamp to determine if the the last letter is a factory grind out or a shadow.
it looks like most of these the Y is too far from the CK. which makes me think if you see a perfect CKY stamp from that time frame you may be seeing a re-stamp.
we also gotta keep in mind these guys building these cars figured they would be junked in 10 to 20 years. not judged in 45 to 55 years. they didn't give a little bit of a damn if the stamp was pretty or aligned correctly or if I was used for 1 or O was used for 0. or restamped right over a mistake. all they cared about was the broadcast stamp was correct date and code and vin matched the windshield frame tag.
It's very tough. On the 3 "CKY" stamps on the right you can clearly see a spatial difference between the bottom two relative to where the "1" sits between the 8 and the 3 though more between the 1 and 3, though both to my uneducated eye look like they could have come from the same dies. "Y"s are a bot tougher as it also comes down to how the Y was cast in the die. Even in todays digital world, if you do enough word processing you can see areas where the program has a harder time placing a "Y" character the same distance apart form other letters in the run. In some of the stamp pad examples it is easy to surmise the dies might not have been aligned or even in the same gang. In other case I think it may be more an optical illusion.
My car came with CE engine and very long term ownership so I am very glad i didn't have to base any of the value on deciphering the originality of the pad stamping!
Originally Posted by DKM-106
Ed
Thanks for posting. The car to the first engine stamp is a Nov build date so the suffix stamp date fits. However I have a number of 72 LT1 stamps and much later cars had earlier engine suffix date stamps than this car. The LT1 motors were built in batches so it is not uncommon to see a motor stamped form Flint Michigan months before the built date. The production numbers were low on the LT1's and the engines didn't get used up as fast as the base motor cars for example. Here are a few examples of later LT1's built with earlier engines and vin stamps to compare. I would need to see better pictures of the first stamp to determine if the the last letter is a factory grind out or a shadow.
I find it very interesting that there are two corrected engine stamps close to each other in production. I wonder if it was simply that there was an issue with the gang stamp and this was GM solution and getting these engines stamped correctly. As Derekx2 said, GMs only concern was getting these engines marked, and they probably were completely unconcerned about how these marks appeared.
Interesting stuff. Greatly appreciate everyone’s expertise and comments. Ike
[QUOTE=general ike;1604555766]I find it very interesting that there are two corrected engine stamps close to each other in production. I wonder if it was simply that there was an issue with the gang stamp and this was GM solution and getting these engines stamped correctly. As Derekx2 said, GMs only concern was getting these engines marked, and they probably were completely unconcerned about how these marks appeared.
Interesting stuff. Greatly appreciate everyone’s expertise and comments. Ike[/QUOTE
You will never know what took place. It could have been the guy’s first day on the job, having a bad day, trouble with the stamping tool, or hung over. It was done by human beings not robots like so much of how cars are built today people make mistakes.
So my opinion is both LT1 blocks are not original. The first one has vin tag issue, a fake tank sticker and there are issues with the stamp. The second one posted doesn't line up either if I am reading it correctly. It's car number 783 which would be an Aug 25th 1971 build date? The block is stamped 0914CKY. All of the LT1 stamps I have for cars built up to about vin number 9xxx all are August stamped blocks from Flint Michigan. Also with the car being built around Aug 25th 1971, the block is stamped 0914-which is September 14th 1971. After the build date of the car.
Interesting engine pad. Opinions wanted.
