NCRS Question - Exhaust
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 304
From: Charlotte Area North Carolina
NCRS Question - Exhaust
I was looking at Gardner Exhaust Systems 2" aluminized exhaust pipes and welded mufflers as the closest NCRS correct exhaust I can get for my L-46 350 / 350 1969 Coupe, PS, PB, AC. I know that there are point deductions for aluminized exhaust under CDCIF and to stay away from stainless which would be a higher point lose. Anyone have experience with a better vendor source than Gardner Exhaust Systems that is NCRS correct. There is also Ecklers, Zip, Corvette Central and a few others but I'm wondering if Gardner Exhaust Systems isn't there supplier too.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Sitting in his Nowhere land Hanover Pa
2024 C2 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
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I highly doubt any repro parts house is selling Gardner Exhaust Systems. corvette central makes their own exhaust systems and they fit well
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,682
Likes: 3,135
From: Shamong, NJ
Gardner won't sell their systems wholesale, at least not from my experience, unless they've changed their marketing in the last 2 or 3 years, they only sell direct. Corvette Central makes their own systems and to my knowledge they should pass Flight judging. We put a Central exhaust on a friends 67 that received a Duntov award.
I know Volunteer and I think Eckler's, were selling systems made by East Tennessee Vette, which are very nice systems that fit well, and are priced reasonably, but they're not 100% NCRS correct.
I know Volunteer and I think Eckler's, were selling systems made by East Tennessee Vette, which are very nice systems that fit well, and are priced reasonably, but they're not 100% NCRS correct.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 104
Likes: 65
From: Southern New England USA
Gardner
Gardner requires you to fit and weld the mufflers yourself. And they are definately not a supplier to CC. As far as correct goes, that will take some crawling under unrestored ‘69’s to compare.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 12,682
Likes: 3,135
From: Shamong, NJ
I believe Gardner won't sell welded systems is because of the cost and difficulty in shipping them. Central will ship welded systems, but the cost is prohibitive. Central use to deliver their systems to Spring, Fall and Corvette Carlisle's for free, but since being sold they've dropped Spring and Fall and I haven't heard yet if the new owners still plan on bringing paid orders to Corvette Carlisle.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 839
From: PA
Gardner sells the most accurate systems for our C3s… Far from perfect, but the are the best out there.
You CAN get carbon steel by special order. I believe that you have to prepay and there are no returns, but you can get it. I have an LT-1 system in carbon steel that I’ve had for 8+ years. It has been in heated/air conditioned storage and is as rust free as the day I bought it. It will last!
The down pipes for the 1968-1972 cars are very accurate. The LT-1 pipes are dead on and in speaking with Eric Gardner, it sounds as if both smooth and wrinkled big block pipes are being offered (ask the team leader what he wants to see before ordering). I would imagine that the 2” pipes for your L-46 are good as well.
The rear pipes for the 1968, 1970-1972 big blocks and 1970-1972 LT-1s are way off. The pipes should be flattened continuously over most of the length of the pipe (through the bends) and they aren’t. Spoke to Eric (and his dad while he was still with us) and he didn’t seem to be inclined to make any changes. The 2” systems should be OK as the weren’t flattened.
The mufflers are off as well but they can be made to work. The crimps are off, but those can be fixed, the original mufflers had an embossed “W” on the case (driver side facing up, passenger side facing down) which can be added, and the bead around both ends of the muffler are more round on the originals.
You’ll need to butt weld the rear pipe to the muffler as original, but that was never a problem for me as it allows the exhaust to be fitted perfectly to the car.
Gardner does not wholesale their exhaust systems… They are the one and only producer and seller.
They don’t sell pieces of systems. You buy the whole set (pipes and mufflers) and that’s it.
Unless the quality of NCRS judging has declined dramatically since I stepped down as team leader, neither Gardner nor Corvette Central systems will pass without deductions (as delivered).
Regards,
Stan Falenski
You CAN get carbon steel by special order. I believe that you have to prepay and there are no returns, but you can get it. I have an LT-1 system in carbon steel that I’ve had for 8+ years. It has been in heated/air conditioned storage and is as rust free as the day I bought it. It will last!
The down pipes for the 1968-1972 cars are very accurate. The LT-1 pipes are dead on and in speaking with Eric Gardner, it sounds as if both smooth and wrinkled big block pipes are being offered (ask the team leader what he wants to see before ordering). I would imagine that the 2” pipes for your L-46 are good as well.
The rear pipes for the 1968, 1970-1972 big blocks and 1970-1972 LT-1s are way off. The pipes should be flattened continuously over most of the length of the pipe (through the bends) and they aren’t. Spoke to Eric (and his dad while he was still with us) and he didn’t seem to be inclined to make any changes. The 2” systems should be OK as the weren’t flattened.
The mufflers are off as well but they can be made to work. The crimps are off, but those can be fixed, the original mufflers had an embossed “W” on the case (driver side facing up, passenger side facing down) which can be added, and the bead around both ends of the muffler are more round on the originals.
You’ll need to butt weld the rear pipe to the muffler as original, but that was never a problem for me as it allows the exhaust to be fitted perfectly to the car.
Gardner does not wholesale their exhaust systems… They are the one and only producer and seller.
They don’t sell pieces of systems. You buy the whole set (pipes and mufflers) and that’s it.
Unless the quality of NCRS judging has declined dramatically since I stepped down as team leader, neither Gardner nor Corvette Central systems will pass without deductions (as delivered).
Regards,
Stan Falenski
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 304
From: Charlotte Area North Carolina
Gardner sells the most accurate systems for our C3s… Far from perfect, but the are the best out there.
You CAN get carbon steel by special order. I believe that you have to prepay and there are no returns, but you can get it. I have an LT-1 system in carbon steel that I’ve had for 8+ years. It has been in heated/air conditioned storage and is as rust free as the day I bought it. It will last!
The down pipes for the 1968-1972 cars are very accurate. The LT-1 pipes are dead on and in speaking with Eric Gardner, it sounds as if both smooth and wrinkled big block pipes are being offered (ask the team leader what he wants to see before ordering). I would imagine that the 2” pipes for your L-46 are good as well.
The rear pipes for the 1968, 1970-1972 big blocks and 1970-1972 LT-1s are way off. The pipes should be flattened continuously over most of the length of the pipe (through the bends) and they aren’t. Spoke to Eric (and his dad while he was still with us) and he didn’t seem to be inclined to make any changes. The 2” systems should be OK as the weren’t flattened.
The mufflers are off as well but they can be made to work. The crimps are off, but those can be fixed, the original mufflers had an embossed “W” on the case (driver side facing up, passenger side facing down) which can be added, and the bead around both ends of the muffler are more round on the originals.
You’ll need to butt weld the rear pipe to the muffler as original, but that was never a problem for me as it allows the exhaust to be fitted perfectly to the car.
Gardner does not wholesale their exhaust systems… They are the one and only producer and seller.
They don’t sell pieces of systems. You buy the whole set (pipes and mufflers) and that’s it.
Unless the quality of NCRS judging has declined dramatically since I stepped down as team leader, neither Gardner nor Corvette Central systems will pass without deductions (as delivered).
Regards,
Stan Falenski
You CAN get carbon steel by special order. I believe that you have to prepay and there are no returns, but you can get it. I have an LT-1 system in carbon steel that I’ve had for 8+ years. It has been in heated/air conditioned storage and is as rust free as the day I bought it. It will last!
The down pipes for the 1968-1972 cars are very accurate. The LT-1 pipes are dead on and in speaking with Eric Gardner, it sounds as if both smooth and wrinkled big block pipes are being offered (ask the team leader what he wants to see before ordering). I would imagine that the 2” pipes for your L-46 are good as well.
The rear pipes for the 1968, 1970-1972 big blocks and 1970-1972 LT-1s are way off. The pipes should be flattened continuously over most of the length of the pipe (through the bends) and they aren’t. Spoke to Eric (and his dad while he was still with us) and he didn’t seem to be inclined to make any changes. The 2” systems should be OK as the weren’t flattened.
The mufflers are off as well but they can be made to work. The crimps are off, but those can be fixed, the original mufflers had an embossed “W” on the case (driver side facing up, passenger side facing down) which can be added, and the bead around both ends of the muffler are more round on the originals.
You’ll need to butt weld the rear pipe to the muffler as original, but that was never a problem for me as it allows the exhaust to be fitted perfectly to the car.
Gardner does not wholesale their exhaust systems… They are the one and only producer and seller.
They don’t sell pieces of systems. You buy the whole set (pipes and mufflers) and that’s it.
Unless the quality of NCRS judging has declined dramatically since I stepped down as team leader, neither Gardner nor Corvette Central systems will pass without deductions (as delivered).
Regards,
Stan Falenski
Thank you guys for all of your responses. I am curious about the carbon steel option from Gardner. I would think that carbon steel would get fewer NCRS point deductions under CDCIF than aluminized exhaust? Not sure about that, just my intuition. I am certain my brand new exhaust system will not get 100% and I am okay with that. Would just like to get as many points as I can get and be as close to OEM as I can get.
I am good with buying the entire system because I need everything from the exhaust manifold and down exhaust collector all the way to the back, including clamps and hangers. I'm okay with welding, I don't have a welder but I know lots of resources nearby who can do that once I have the fit and alignments and spacing (clearances) where they should be.
Corvette Central offers welded muffler aluminized complete exhaust systems. Anyone know if CC offers carbon steel as an option? Again, my assumption being carbon steel would be closer to OEM than aluminized and that aluminized would get fewer point deductions under CDCIF that say stainless steel (which I am not even considering).
Appreciate y'all. Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge, expertise and suggestions.
Kevin
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 304
From: Charlotte Area North Carolina
Update:
Did a little more research on carbon steel and I think I have determined, at least in my mind, that carbon steel would result in lower points under CDCIF than aluminized. Looks like aluminized exhaust is the way to go. I'll add exhaust to the list of things that I know are not 100% NCRS correct on the car.
Did a little more research on carbon steel and I think I have determined, at least in my mind, that carbon steel would result in lower points under CDCIF than aluminized. Looks like aluminized exhaust is the way to go. I'll add exhaust to the list of things that I know are not 100% NCRS correct on the car.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,476
Likes: 756
From: Laporte, IN
It may not depending on the caliber and knowledge of the judges. They could find the pipes are close but not typical production you would lose Configuration, date and possibly finish. The mufflers will not pass as well and should lose all 3 areas. An aluminized system will loss 25% max per the standard deduction is the way to go. Just my thoughts as a former judge.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,797
Likes: 304
From: Charlotte Area North Carolina
After talking and texting with some CF members and talking on the phone with Eric Gardner, I went ahead and purchased the complete 2" carbon steel exhaust system for a manual transmission 1969 from Gardner Exhaust Systems. Lead time is 13-weeks so plan accordingly if you are shopping for exhaust. This was my best option with the least CDCIF point deductions. "Yes," you still have to tig weld the Gardner mufflers as LowOption mentioned but they do provide a set of dummy throw-away clamps for you to use for welding purposes.
Thanks Stan, Grant, Paul and others for your assistance.
Thanks Stan, Grant, Paul and others for your assistance.