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Hello all, thought I would see what kind of experienced feedback I could get on headers and side pipes, not side pipe opinions, I've had plenty of side pipes cars and love them.
I have installed several OEM style on C2s and C3s but never a header and pipe set up.
I am now searching and looks like it will be either Dougs or Hooker, not sure which are better if at all, i prefer chrome over ceramic, I know little about the right inserts (sound over performance for me)
Install looks pretty straight forward, removing smog, manifolds current exhaust no problem but I read different things about install, I plan on dropping some steering as I will be installing a borgeson at the same time, I read I may need shorter plugs? perhaps different plug wires with angled boots? Will I need to cut the front of my rocker moldings? Will I need a spacer for AC bracket?
1980 stock L48 car
Any insight from experience would be appreciated
Last edited by Golfobsessed; Aug 27, 2023 at 09:10 PM.
This is what Hooker sidepipe headers look like in a white 80 L48. I know there have been several threads on making them fit around a Borgeson box instead.
My biggest piece of advice: Use studs, not bolts, to hold them in place. Ideally, get the 3/8 studs that go in to the block, and take 5/16 threaded nuts. This will give you the best clearance. Pictured below are 3/8 studs and nuts. The Z-bar is out in that photo, but you can see the ball stud where it passes through the pipes.
I have Doug's. They use thicker gauge metal so they should last much longer. The supplied gaskets are crap so spend the money on the SCE copper oval shaped gaskets to fit those header ports. I used Doug's hardware that included star lockwashers and they seem to be holding well after retorque at 1k miles.
I ran the plug wires below the headers like stock but going thru the motor mounts on the front 4 wires was not possible in every case. One wire in particular had to run outside the motor mount ( maybe it was #3 or was it #4?).
I used a set of black ceramic boot wires from Jegs. Those are heat proof. No special plugs were required. Cut and crimp to fit. Very nice "snap" when you attach the terminal, unlike many of the others i have seen.
Needed to trim the passenger side rocker panel front corner but only a little bit. It's not really visible after install.
Classic Chambered built me a pair of Vettepacks for the inserts. They are loud but not too loud especially when cruising at 2000 RPM at 70 on the highway in OD.
This is what Hooker sidepipe headers look like in a white 80 L48. I know there have been several threads on making them fit around a Borgeson box instead.
My biggest piece of advice: Use studs, not bolts, to hold them in place. Ideally, get the 3/8 studs that go in to the block, and take 5/16 threaded nuts. This will give you the best clearance. Pictured below are 3/8 studs and nuts. The Z-bar is out in that photo, but you can see the ball stud where it passes through the pipes.
thanks Bikespace, thank you for the reference pics, looks great and will be looking into studs over bolts, did you go with universal over rag joint for header clearance?
I have Doug's. They use thicker gauge metal so they should last much longer. The supplied gaskets are crap so spend the money on the SCE copper oval shaped gaskets to fit those header ports. I used Doug's hardware that included star lockwashers and they seem to be holding well after retorque at 1k miles.
I ran the plug wires below the headers like stock but going thru the motor mounts on the front 4 wires was not possible in every case. One wire in particular had to run outside the motor mount ( maybe it was #3 or was it #4?).
I used a set of black ceramic boot wires from Jegs. Those are heat proof. No special plugs were required. Cut and crimp to fit. Very nice "snap" when you attach the terminal, unlike many of the others i have seen.
Needed to trim the passenger side rocker panel front corner but only a little bit. It's not really visible after install.
Classic Chambered built me a pair of Vettepacks for the inserts. They are loud but not too loud especially when cruising at 2000 RPM at 70 on the highway in OD.
thanks stingr69, will definitely upgrade the gaskets, I am going to reach out to Summit in the next day or so for options, as much as I prefer the chrome I may go ceramic, I'm reading it's a better option all around, also looks like Doug's is the better option as well, thanks for the info, always like to get everything needed before starting a project and was thinking I might need a "cut to fit" for the wires
Sorry all, don't want to be a pain, ordering headers/pipes tomorrow, I decided on Doug's and ceramic (inserts still a little up in the air)
When it comes to ceramic vs chrome vs stainless steel am I missing something before ordering?
I wanted chrome for the look but as suggested allot they will oxidize, turn blue and run hotter so i decided on ceramic... so now looking for some final longevity from people who've had any of them for a while, I hear even the ceramic will discolor down the road but is that from neglect, chrome a bit more expensive but again heat and bluing and even read about some chrome peeling... and then stainless which is quite a bit more but I'm good with that if its worth it or do those turn brown?
Just some final input about all three that have been on for a while.
thanks Bikespace, thank you for the reference pics, looks great and will be looking into studs over bolts, did you go with universal over rag joint for header clearance?
I chose the Flaming River U-joint to have tighter steering. I didn't test fit the rag joint, I had already swapped.
I think these pipes are ceramic coated. I wish they were black (and still ceramic), but the were really cheap, used. I try not to have any chrome on anything if I can help it.
I chose the Flaming River U-joint to have tighter steering. I didn't test fit the rag joint, I had already swapped.
I think these pipes are ceramic coated. I wish they were black (and still ceramic), but the were really cheap, used. I try not to have any chrome on anything if I can help it.
thanks again Bikespace, I asked because I have a correct universal I purchased when I added a Boregeson to my 64 and never used it.
I will order ceramic in the morning if I don't get talked otherwise, i seriously considered SS but not sure its worth the extra money.
thank you again
I've been considering the same ... except with heat shields like below.
Three questions :
1) In the posts above it appears Doug's have thicker gauge metal. Anything else that differentiates Doug's and Hooker's ?
2) Still concerned about ground clearance ... do Doug's or Hooker's have better ground clearance ?
3) Are you considering solid motor mounts ? I understand they reduce stress on side exhaust headers.
I've been considering the same ... except with heat shields like below.
Three questions :
1) In the posts above it appears Doug's have thicker gauge metal. Anything else that differentiates Doug's and Hooker's ?
2) Still concerned about ground clearance ... do Doug's or Hooker's have better ground clearance ?
3) Are you considering solid motor mounts ? I understand they reduce stress on side exhaust headers.
Thanks - Dave
I did order Doug's yesterday from Summit, I went with Doug's because they were a bit cheaper and read enough good reviews, really no other reason, I even considered OBX but there is no direct contact number for them, I emailed them and they wouldn't give me a contact number.
most of what I've read and seen on YouTube clearance isn't an issue and not really lower than any other part of the car or oil pan.. in fact I think I will get a bit more center clearance.
my car was restored in recent years and the motor mounts are new so I won't be changing them but IMO with the two point pipe mounting at the frame I can't imagine too much stress on the engine mounts, but could be wrong.
I purchased two sets of inserts to play with sound vs hp hindering but with a 1980 L48 it will come down to sound more.
I will make heat shields decision after install.
I will start prepping the car this weekend and hopefully install next weekend, will update on install.
If your interest is maximum horsepower and not running a side pipe without a muffler, run a good under car system. I have extensive Dyno experience with these exhaust systems and as long as you are going to run a muffler, you are much better off going under car with your exhaust when it comes to keeping your horsepower. I did the side pipe thing, and the only way to not lose significant power, was to run it with a muffler the was so loud I couldn't stand to drive the car. Now admittedly this was with a 600 hp big block. Your L48 won't be as bad, but you will still lose power over a good under chassis system with the mufflers in back.
Bill
Last edited by 69ttop502; Sep 2, 2023 at 06:28 PM.
If your interest is maximum horsepower and not running a side pipe without a muffler, run a good under car system. I have extensive Dyno experience with these exhaust systems and as long as you are going to run a muffler, you are much better off going under car with your exhaust when it comes to keeping your horsepower. I did the side pipe thing, and the only way to not lose significant power, was to run it with a muffler the was so loud I couldn't stand to drive the car. Now admittedly this was with a 600 hp big block. Your L48 won't be as bad, but you will still lose power over a good under chassis system with the mufflers in back.
Bill
thanks Bill, appreciate it, I am not doing this for horsepower at all... its an 80 L48... definitely not looking for HP and will never make it on a dyno.
I've had a Viper, a Coyote build factory five cobra, a stroked 427 SB backdraft cobra, a 64 corvette, 63 corvette and 69 corvette all side pipes, I added the side pipes to the 63 and 64 (chambered) and Allens pipes to the 69, the rest had inserts... I love side pipes, the backdraft had the least restrictive but very loud.
as stated I want side pipes for the esthetics and sound and just lookin to loose as little HP as possible, a good balance between sound and limit hp loss.
I installed a true dual CC no cat magnaflow exhaust on this car which helped wake it up a little but again going for more sound and love side pipes.
I will be keeping everything to bring it back to original perhaps down the road, just want to make it a little more for me with some mild modifications.
thanks again.
If you want side pipes that last, definitely spend the extra money and get stainless. Chrome and ceramic will always rust. I've had my stainless Hookers for 13 years and they have turned a very slight shade of gold but no rust.
If you want side pipes that last, definitely spend the extra money and get stainless. Chrome and ceramic will always rust. I've had my stainless Hookers for 13 years and they have turned a very slight shade of gold but no rust.
thank you, i purchased ceramic for a couple reasons (i did look at stainless as well)
I stuck with ceramic as I have no bright on my car and thought the ceramic finish would look a little better against either the polished aluminum factory wheels or the brushed/argent torq thrust Ds i also ordered, they run a bit cooler, discolor less, easiest for me to high heat paint black down the road if I wanted (I also considered black) also I am in Arizona and they will rarely if ever get wet as I typically don't wet wash.
I went back and forth all week before making the decision and also looked up a few ceramic coating companies here in AZ if I ever need to get them recoated.
If I had a steel bumper car it would be a no brainer, your car looks great
thanks again
Last edited by Golfobsessed; Sep 2, 2023 at 07:39 PM.
Headers and side pipes
