I am in the process of doing some brake work, rebuilding a caliper and replacing master cylinder etc and I thought I would give the Phoenix reverse bleeder a look. The idea behind it sounds good, but I am having an issue with fluid leaking out of the bleeder/hose connection while pumping the handle. It's hard to determine if it is coming from the rubber elbow or around the bleeder itself. Is there a trick I don't know about. How open do I make the bleeder? Just a little or a full turn. This isn't rocket science and I have done this countless times before the old fashioned way, so I must be missing something. Thanks. for any suggestions.

 

I would open the bleeder about a half turn. Bleeder screws seal with the tapper on the bottom of them. So when cracked open some fluid coming past the threads is normal. But it should be minimal. If it's excessive. Check that fluid is actually going into the brakes. That the proportioning valve isn't kicked or you have a blockage somewhere. Are you getting a lot of fluid around the bleeder threads because your just not opening the bleeder enough? Are you getting fluid up to the master? If all else fails and you are certain there is no blockage. Try putting a couple wraps of Teflon tape on the threads of the bleeder. Making certain you don't cover the lower hole or tip of course.

 

I have one of those little tools in the proportioning valve to keep it centered. I probably wasn't opening the bleeder enough, but in any case I will wrap some teflon around them. They are who knows how old so corrosion might have taken it's toll. One wheel specifically is hard to get the fluid into. And that's the one with the most leakage. Maybe the bleeder hole itself is plugged and it is blowing back past the thread. I guess I will have to bother the wife and ask her to watch the master cylinder as I reverse bleed it. Thanks for the insight.

 

I never use those rubber adapters that come in these type of kits...
I go straight to the bleeder with as few adapters as possible...
Those bleeders are soft and the taper can distort easily...
You can get a USA made pack of 10 bleeders from rock auto for about $1.05ea

 

As we are all fond of saying...I might as well... Good suggestion. Thanks.

 

Here is an update on my bleeding issues.
The backstory: I was prepping my car for paint when a rear caliper started to leak. I rebuilt both rear ones, and knowing what I do about brake fluid/paint etc I decided to be PROACTIVE and replace the master cylinder and the proportioning valve, while I was there. I have completely rebuilt this car except for those 2 items, and didn't want to mess with the brake fluid after I paint. I have had vetttes for over 50 years so bleeding isn't something new to me.
As I stated at the beginning of this thread I was having issues with the Phoenix reverse bleeder. I figured out that I wasn't pushing the hoses onto the bleeder far enough, which caused the fluid to leak. I got that straightened out but I also discovered the real issue. Today I was still trying to get the air out and had my son watch the MC while I reversed bled it. I was pumping away and he told me that the fluid level in the MC was barely going up. It finally got to a good level and as soon as I let off the Phoenix tool, the level in the MC dropped. So my thinking is there is a big air bubble somewhere. There is a lot of air in the left caliper, I can tell by just squeezing the brake pads. When I try and gravity bleed that wheel, hardly any fluid comes out. Tomorrow I am going to start at the proportioning valve and work my way back looking for something that could be blocking the flow, like the rubber hose, which is new, meaning I put it on about 8 years ago although the car hasn't moved much since then. If that hose flows OK than the only issue that I can think of is either the valve or the MC. I checked the valve and the light does not come on so I assume that it is not locked over to one side or the other. And the valve I bought said MADE In THE USA, but who knows anymore. The MC is an aftermarket one, but both parts were listed for a 1978.
Before I just randomly throw money at a MC and valve, I thought I would ask if anyone has any thoughts as to what I might be missing. Thanks.

 

kanvasman
Is there a reason you do not do Pressure Bleeding?
I have a generic master cylinder I picked up at Napa well over a decade ago (I'll go look) and it works just fine.

I would recommend trying pressure bleeding if you haven't tried it. It really has worked out well for me and I made my own out of a garden sprayer and an aluminum plate (with a gasket made from and inner tube)...... I made that thing because I didn't want to wait for shipping of a real one. It worked out so well (well over a dozen years ago) that I never ordered a "real" one.
I even do my other cars with pressure bleeding when I do brakes now.....

PS: I looked in my car log.... egad that was a long time ago: [11-27-04: New Master Cylinder from NAPA - $70.03]

 

Appreciate it if you would elaborate on this "little tool".

thanks

 

 

So how do you bench bleed a master cylinder using the Phoenix Reverse Bleeder? You are forcing air towards it.

 

Ignatz, Yes, that is the little tool that Joey is showing. The tool takes the place of the switch in the valve. It has a fixed end that doesn't move up or down, so it locks the shaft in place and it cannot move one way or another, keeping it centered.
The Phoenix can be used as a pressure or vacuum bleeder, you just connect the hoses opposite. For the master cylinder on the bench you put the brake line adapters in place and have them come back into the master cylinder, just like a regular bench bleed. You push the MC rod into the bore approx 1-1 1/2", hold it in place with a vise grip.Then you take the end of the Pheonix tool with the appropriate tip and push it down into the bowl of the MC, up against the port inside. Then squeeze the handle of the Phoenix, pushing fluid into the port and watch bubbles come out of the hoses going into the MC. When the bubble stop, you are done.
Mr Carriljc, I have done pressure bleeding. When I put this system together about 8 years ago I had an old Euclid system, with a huge stainless ball filled with fluid, a rubber bladder and an air fitting. It worked perfectly. But over time the bladder failed so I ended up tossing the whole thing. But I think I might be going back to that idea. I even just found the aluminum adapter plate I made for it. It looks like I will be heading out to the garden center to pick up a sprayer.... thanks all.

 

That's about what I imagined it had to be. I have an old "proportioning" valve so I suppose I could put something together if need be. My last bleed was definitely in the last decade. I can detect a little softness in the pedal, not much, so I have a good place to start from.

My calipers are Wilwood's and I have a spare master cylinder cap so I am thinking to tap into that and pressure bleed from there.

thanks