Buddy of mine sent me some video from FB that depicts a triple black 68 L88. Buddy says it’s “numbers matching” but we all know how that goes and I asked it it had the original drivetrain. He advised he was not certain.
It was definitely restored and looks sharp.
Anyone know anything on this car? The search function here is less than ideal so just asking up front.

Stay safe.

 

So is it numbers matching or the original drivetrain? It can’t be one without the other.

 

It can certainly be numbers matching and not have the original drivetrain. If it’s got the original drivetrain ( unless decked) it’s also matching. We all know that.

Just trying to see if anyone has heard of this car.

 

You have a link? Photos? A VIN? Hard to look into without more info.

 

I guess your definition of numbers matching is different than my (and maybe piersonpie's) definition of numbers matching.

 

There's only 80 or so cars like that in the world. I bet all of the black ones have been accounted for.

If that is not the engine that came with the car when it was new, it is not numbers matching. I'd bet there are more L88 "homage" cars driving around than actual original 68 L88s.

This thread might be a start:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-69-l88-s.html

 

John,

There is a feed on Facebook from Speedway Motors dated May 8… I’m guessing that is the car that your buddy is referring to. No video of the engine or detail shots of the pad so it’s impossible to say if it is real or not. I do know of a high profile black/black 1968 convertible with the original driveline… Might be the same car, but again, impossible to tell without more information.

Actually, John’s definition is spot on… “Original” and “matching numbers” are mutually exclusive terms.

Regards,

​​​​​​​Stan Falenski

 

Hi Stan. Thank you.

Yes that is the car from Speedway Motors and that is the video. With only 80 (?) L88 cars produced in 1968 I figured someone here would have heard of this car before, especially since it is a triple black.

 

Thanks!

Here's the link, for those with FB. The text even says that it is one of the original 80 1968 L88s (but doesn't show the engine).

...facebook.com/share/r/1G4jg3MYbr/

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1G4jg3MYbr/
Really? So the vast majority of Corvette owners are using these terms incorrectly? My original engines have "matching number" partial VINs stamped on the engine pad (and all the documentation also matches, since I have the dealer invoice). Are you saying my cars are "original", but not "numbers matching"?

 

I take it that he's saying forgeries can be considered numbers matching.

 

A car can have its original engine decked during a rebuild… It is still the original engine, but no longer matching numbers (at least as far as the block goes).

A car can have an engine restamped to replace an engine damaged in service… It is matching numbers, but definitely not original.

I’ll stand by what I said, that the two terms are mutually exclusive.

Regards,

Stan Falenski

 

No.
If your car has the original engine then obviously it is also numbers matching unless it was decked.

However, a restamped non-original block is still (frequently) called numbers matching (because the numbers do match) but it is still not original.

This topic has been discussed for years and these definitions are pretty much widely accepted by most Corvette owners who care about originality. Some don’t which is cool as well.

Try not to get hung up on it. Your car has the original and numbers matching engine.

Additionally, simply because the ad says it is one of the original 80 L88s produced in 1968 does not even remotely mean it has the original drivetrain. It could be and likely is 1 of the 80. That was never my question. My question is centered on if this car still has the engine it left the factory with (original drivetrain).

 

A car with a decked engine now has a NOM (not original motor), as there is no way to prove otherwise.

A car with a restamped engine also has a NOM, and could be fraudulently represented if the restamping is not disclosed.

There were factory engine replacements, but those are a special case.

 

A car that has its original engine and then has that engine decked, in no way changes the fact that it is STILL the original engine (block) to that car. It is just no longer matching numbers (with regard to the block).

Regards,

Stan Falenski

 

Yes, really. The terms are in accurate, not necessarily incorrect. Just because the terms have been used for years does not make them any more correct now than they were when the term was hijacked from the firearm industry. There are court cases that have been settled because of the term “matching numbers” being understood as original. If a seller uses the word “matching numbers” but not original, they are not on the hook if you misunderstand, or at the very least make it harder to hold the seller accountable.

A restamped engine is also “Matching numbers”. Why? Because the numbers match. The word “matching” does not mean “original”.

Your cars may have the original drivetrain and the numbers match. But a restamped engine block in another car IS “matching numbers” but is NOT original.

Here is another angle as well. There are part numbers on MANY parts under the hood. The alternator, water pump, smog pump, carb, starter, casting number on the block, intake and exhaust manifolds, etc. When I see 100% matching numbers and then see all the other parts are not correct or original, then what is the seller talking about? Just the engine and trans? So what is 100% matching numbers? Is there a 80% matching numbers? Would that mean that some of the vin stamped numbers match the vin? It’s all crap. It’s vague. And that is why unscrupulous sellers love that term.

The ONLY term should be “born with original drivetrain” (or engine or trans or whatever is original). Born with. Put in at St Louis (or whatever GM plant) from the factory. It leaves little doubt and if that statement is a lie, then a fraud case is easier to win when a buyer gets ripped off.

 

Interesting information on the topic and definitions.

Safe to say, if I were to ever buy a car due to its rarity, and was told it was “numbers matching” I would expect it to have the engine it left the factory with, and would have some things to say to the party selling it if I found out I got a restamped block.

 

Excellent reply. I'm 100% with you on the "born with original drivetrain" statement (even though I do not care for any of my own cars).

Matching numbers should mean original, but thanks for pointing out the ways that it doesn't. Caveat Emptor.

 

IF you want to be serious about this and be truthful...A restamped engine block that did not come with the car is a forgery, and if proven that is not the original number enginie or part that was sold with the car from the factory and is sold across state line is a felony and if its over a certain amount in the same state the FBI can be involved,.,..ITs also misrepresentation ....When I last investigated it, I was told by the Utah Field agent that for wire fraud it is $10,000 instate and as little as a thousand across state lines..... So if you sell a car for a lot of money on line to an out of state buyer, and it isnt what was advertised then you are looking at hard time and serious fines, plus you can be convicted in a civil court which requires less proof.

Also it was stated earlier that an original car and a numbers matching car are not the same which can be true. Tthe vin stamping on an engine and the frame are part of the vehicle identity and are used to identify a car in grand theft auto cases. If you change the vin number on the engine or frame then you can face further federal prosecution. IF you car is damaged and you replace a portion of the body but retain the VIN then you can skirt that with a loop hole as it has been restored.
Your car is only original once as once it gets its first service and anything is replaced, it is no longer original, but can still be matching numbers if the parts on the vehicle that have vin numbers are not replaced,...body, engine, transmission, rear differential on some vehicles and frame. There are a few cars that are truly original running around but they are rare. Ive seen a few but they werent collectors items

As for the drive train statement, it is the engine , transmission, drive shafts and differentials as a whole. These are what propel the car and is considered the drive train.

Period correct is a different matter and is what NCRS goes by.

 

LOL, the same people discussing the same topic over and over for years

And everyone ignoring the original question.... "Anyone know anything on this car?"

Sorry avalonjohn I can't help you.

 

Jeez THANK YOU!

Back on topic. Does anyone know anything about this car,