Frequently I see ads for Vettes that claim matching numbers, yet most of the induction system is aftermarket.....

.....case in point, a '69 base 4 speed roadster for sale by a dealer here in NZ, that has braided hoses, aftermarket air cleaner, painted LT1 valve covers, electronic ignition (no ignition shielding), 750 DP Holley, high rise manifold, BB hood......and a claimed production of 5,000 for this "special" model ????????

.....don't get me wrong, I like modified Vettes.....but since there are 1,000's of dollars required to buy the matching numbers parts that are missing on this vehicle, aren't these ads a bid misleading ???????

Anyway, what do you think ???????

 

Matching numbers relate to the VIN,Engine & Trans. Other parts (starter,water pump.alternator) have date codes. "Matching Numbers" may not be an "Original" car or parts.

 

well i would say taht if i was looking for a matching numbers car the only things taht i would be worried about would be the engine block transmission and frame with the block matching the vin tag which in my case i actually have on my 76. the heads and original exhaust and intake manifold are in a box in my shed but i must admit that when my mom got the car and it was hers i thought it would be nice to put a better carb on it and well i hate to say but i lost the original one but am hopeing that it is in her basement which i will be looking for when i go down to norfolk, va on march 10th. oh yea and it still has the original unused spare tire

 

There is a detailed explanation of the various numbered components of a car in the "Corvette Black Book" by Mike Antonick. To quote from his book:

"When the engine is mated to a vehicle at the Corvette assembly plant, another set of numbers containing the sequential part of the vehicle identification number is stamped into the engine to key it to its specific body and chassis. Starting during 1960 production through 1991, this vin derivative was stamped into the same pad as the suffix number. More than any other number, it is the engine's vin derivative match to the vehicle number that constitutes matching numbers terminology."

There are many numbers which can be traced to the original factory production such as the carburetor, distributor, generator, alternator, starter, etc. To have all of these be the original components for a car that is decades old is truly amazing. I believe the term for a car like this is a survivor.

I'm not an expert on the subject. Indeed, far from it. But I think that in most cases a claim for car that has matching numbers is probably refering to a match of the VIN and the main engine components like the block and head. Others on this site will surely correct me if I'm wrong.

Hope this helped.

Regards,

 

There is no definitive, absolute correct answer for your question. Ask ten people, you'll get ten answers.

You might find that a potential buyer would expect everything down to the last bolt would be original from the factory, while a seller might just mean that the VIN numbers on the windshield tag match those on his title or registration paperwork- or even a lottery ticket he once had.

Most serious restorers just avoid use of the term.

 

I agree with Tele_Man

 

Matching numbers: Unmolested car by human hands...all mechanical parts that were installed at the factory, are still on the car...service replacement items such as belts, plugs, distributor caps, replaced by identical GM parts.

Once a block has been replaced and restamped with correct numbers, in my mind, the car no longer is matching numbers.

 

I don't think the matching #s claim is misleading as long as the engine and tranny match. As GDaina points out a restamped block is a whole 'nuther thing. A car with a matching #s block and tranny can be brought back to factory original, one without can't, and that's the acid test IMHO.

JB

 

So what about all the other parts that have unique identifiers that indicate they are/are not original to the car. Why don't they count?

Alternator
Starter
Carb
water pump
fan clutch
distributor
manifolds
smog equipment
radiator

and at least a hundred others............

all of these have 'numbers' that should line up with the production date of the car.

 

Oh geez, this thread is gonna get me killed!

When most people refer to matching numbers they are referring to the engine and drivetrain. That said, it gets a bit more complicated when you talk Vettes specifically. Unlike the other makes/models, Corvettes can be judged by an organization whose purpose is to award owners who have preserved or restored their vehicle as close to perfectly as possible. The idea is to preserve the integrity of the vehicle for historical purposes.

Here's where I'm gonna get killed. It has been my goal to ensure Shark81 is 100% numbers matching and I'm very close. My goal has always been that every part (no matter how minor) is exactly correct for the vehicle both in part number & date code. Ex: bolts, hoses, starters, spark plugs, glass, tires, heater core etc. etc. etc. Paint is another issue. While there are no "numbers" there is a specific type of paint which is correct.

Now, there will be a few who really disagree with this type of restoration as the car becomes undriveable. Other will say that, "why would you do this to an 81?" contending that it will never be worth anything. Well, it's really a personal thing and everyone has opinions. I'm restoring the Vette this way because I do believe it will be worth more than most of the other 81's, I really bought it to look at anyway and this type of restoration is a huge challenge which brings me alot of pleasure.

Finally, I am currently looking for another 81 Vette. The new one will be a hot rod roadster project I've been planning for quite awhile. This car will be for show as well but also to DRIVE. My plan is to have 2 81's, one the way the general intended and one the way the general SHOULD have built it. The way I see it, I get the best of both worlds and can belong to both NCRS's I don't want to give my plan away yet but think aluminum 427 and some great references to a 67!

STW! Platato

 

You missed my point--all of those are important to a factory correct restoration, but all of those parts can be replaced with correctly dated originals from other cars. Engine and tranny can't because they have the VIN derivative stamped on them (well, they can of course if they're restamped, but that's where the real gray area ethics-wise lies). That's why those are the important "matching numbers," and why it's what most sellers mean when they say "matching numbers."

JB

 

And you've missed my point and fallen into the trap of thinking that because YOUR definition of 'numbers matching' is only items with the VIN derivitive, it's the ONLY and CORRECT definition. 'Fraid not!

 

Well, and I guess you missed the "IMHO" and the "what most sellers mean" in my posts. I don't think "my" definition is the only & correct one, and never claimed so. You might want to read it again.

It's not "my" definition, and truth be told, I'm with the "everything correct" school for what "matching numbers" SHOULD mean. That's what I'm trying for with my car. Sorry!

I'm probably not being as clear as I ought to be, and that's probably where you and I are bumping heads. It amounts to this: in my opinion, sellers generally mean engine and tranny when they advertise "matching numbers." They say this, I believe, because they recognise that those are the crucial "matching numbers." In my opinion, knowledgable buyers know this and shouldn't expect every part to be original and date-correct. So, in my opinion, most sellers are not trying to be deceitful when they advertise "numbers matching" in a car with aftermarket parts on it.

JB