How do you true a spindle??
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Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
How do you true a spindle??
I am finally installing the new 14 inch front rotors. They have been machined as a unit and I know that all surfaces are true to each other.
The next step was installing the rotor on the hub. It is going to be going on and then marking one stud, torque the 5 lug nuts and then with a dial indicator check runout. I use a felt pen and mark on the hat the runnout with the rotor installed in that possition, take it back apart, move one set of holes clockwise and do it all over agian remarking the runout with the rotor in that position.
I do this 5 times per side and try to get the least runout. Well without shims all positions show .008 runout?? This must be the hub runout??
I checked bearing play and found .004, this is the front remember.
I will take the .004 out of the bearing tonight and retry but this is the question.
I want to true the hubs themselves. I have the lathe and the dial indicators.
How do you set up something like that that rides on the bearings, not the outer housing. How could you do it???
How do I get my hubs faces trued??
With 14 inch rotors instead of 11 3/4 it really shows up. The calipers don't know the difference so any runout affects them regardless of the distance.
The next step was installing the rotor on the hub. It is going to be going on and then marking one stud, torque the 5 lug nuts and then with a dial indicator check runout. I use a felt pen and mark on the hat the runnout with the rotor installed in that possition, take it back apart, move one set of holes clockwise and do it all over agian remarking the runout with the rotor in that position.
I do this 5 times per side and try to get the least runout. Well without shims all positions show .008 runout?? This must be the hub runout??
I checked bearing play and found .004, this is the front remember.
I will take the .004 out of the bearing tonight and retry but this is the question.
I want to true the hubs themselves. I have the lathe and the dial indicators.
How do you set up something like that that rides on the bearings, not the outer housing. How could you do it???
How do I get my hubs faces trued??
With 14 inch rotors instead of 11 3/4 it really shows up. The calipers don't know the difference so any runout affects them regardless of the distance.
Last edited by norvalwilhelm; Mar 11, 2005 at 09:02 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 94
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From: Barrie Ontario
Norval,
I am having trouble following your setup. My front rotors have the bearings pressed into them. I don't know how you would adjust runout without machining the face of the rotor. I have sceen the pictures of your rotors and hats, what do they bolt on to?
I have not had the front rotors off for 4 years, is my memory failing me already?
I am having trouble following your setup. My front rotors have the bearings pressed into them. I don't know how you would adjust runout without machining the face of the rotor. I have sceen the pictures of your rotors and hats, what do they bolt on to?
I have not had the front rotors off for 4 years, is my memory failing me already?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 958
Likes: 1
From: In the Beautiful Shenandoah Valley of VA
Norval,
I can't think of any easy way to set this up. You might possibly be able to borrow some of the old bearing style rotor setups that came with the old Ammco brake lathes. In the old days we used to turn rotors attached to hubs all the time, and the Ammco lathes had spindle adapters that went right inside of the hub and centered on the bearing races. Check with a shop that has an old Ammco brake lathe. Other than that, you're going to have a tough time.
Steve
I can't think of any easy way to set this up. You might possibly be able to borrow some of the old bearing style rotor setups that came with the old Ammco brake lathes. In the old days we used to turn rotors attached to hubs all the time, and the Ammco lathes had spindle adapters that went right inside of the hub and centered on the bearing races. Check with a shop that has an old Ammco brake lathe. Other than that, you're going to have a tough time.
Steve
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Joined: May 2000
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From: Clearwater FL
Norval,
Why don't you find the high spot on the hub and grind it down. Than put your rotor back on and see if your run out is lower than 8 thou. You don't need to put it on a lathe.
When you knock rivits out of the hubs, there is a possiblity that the metal will knurl (spelling??) up. So you take a grinding wheel and lightly go over the rivit holes to ensure you have no knurls and it won't throw your run out off. This is pretty much the same concept.
Are you able to dial the inside of the rotor hat? Could that be off giving you your high run out. It's a good possibilty. Even w/new rotors we sometime run into a problem where the inside of the hat has an 8 or 9 thou run out.
Dan
Why don't you find the high spot on the hub and grind it down. Than put your rotor back on and see if your run out is lower than 8 thou. You don't need to put it on a lathe.
When you knock rivits out of the hubs, there is a possiblity that the metal will knurl (spelling??) up. So you take a grinding wheel and lightly go over the rivit holes to ensure you have no knurls and it won't throw your run out off. This is pretty much the same concept.
Are you able to dial the inside of the rotor hat? Could that be off giving you your high run out. It's a good possibilty. Even w/new rotors we sometime run into a problem where the inside of the hat has an 8 or 9 thou run out.
Dan
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,426
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From: VetteMOD
St. Jude Donor '05-'07
Could you machine an aluminum plug to fit the inside race and a live center to support the outer race? Maybe tack a drive dog to the hub (that engages the jaws) to keep it from turning.
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Joined: May 2000
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From: Clearwater FL
Originally Posted by FLEXUSMARK
Norval,
I am having trouble following your setup. My front rotors have the bearings pressed into them. I don't know how you would adjust runout without machining the face of the rotor. I have sceen the pictures of your rotors and hats, what do they bolt on to?
I have not had the front rotors off for 4 years, is my memory failing me already?
I am having trouble following your setup. My front rotors have the bearings pressed into them. I don't know how you would adjust runout without machining the face of the rotor. I have sceen the pictures of your rotors and hats, what do they bolt on to?
I have not had the front rotors off for 4 years, is my memory failing me already?
If you bearing are pressed on than you have a major problem. Your bearings are probable seized to the spindle. They should pull right off once you pop th cap off and undo the spindle nut.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 263
Likes: 1
From: 20,000 leagues under the sea
Norval, mark the high and low spots on the hub with the amount ("0" and +/- .00?). When you chuck it in the lathe tap the face in until you get the same readings on the hub and face it off. When you re install it, it will be as close as your indicator readings were. If the hub face has any warp to it, just clean up lightly reinstall and mark again and it should come out very close.
Dave
Dave
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Heel & Toe
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: St. Pete FL
Remove the hub, Press and out the studs.
With a 3 jaw chuck in a lathe chuck the inside by the bearing hole, use the outer bearing cone to go between the live center and the outside bearing race, Then take a truing cut on the face of the hub uasually ,003 to .005 inches. This will thue the hub to the bearings and eliminate all hub runout.
With a 3 jaw chuck in a lathe chuck the inside by the bearing hole, use the outer bearing cone to go between the live center and the outside bearing race, Then take a truing cut on the face of the hub uasually ,003 to .005 inches. This will thue the hub to the bearings and eliminate all hub runout.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by FLEXUSMARK
Norval,
I am having trouble following your setup. My front rotors have the bearings pressed into them. I don't know how you would adjust runout without machining the face of the rotor. I have sceen the pictures of your rotors and hats, what do they bolt on to?
I have not had the front rotors off for 4 years, is my memory failing me already?
I am having trouble following your setup. My front rotors have the bearings pressed into them. I don't know how you would adjust runout without machining the face of the rotor. I have sceen the pictures of your rotors and hats, what do they bolt on to?
I have not had the front rotors off for 4 years, is my memory failing me already?
The hub which from stock had the rivets drilled out, the old rotor removed and the new hat/rotor assembly bolted on. Using a dial indicator I then check the runout of the rotor at the outer edge. This is runout the caliper will see. I then mark the runout as mounted in this position. I remove the rotor, rotate it one set of holes and remount and recheck looking for the least amount of runout.
In my case all 5 holes show runout at .008. This is above the specs I will accept but within factory specs.
I can shim but I would rather remove the hub with the bearings pressed in, remove the 5 studs and remachine the mounting face trying to get it with less runout.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by Van Steel
Norval,
Why don't you find the high spot on the hub and grind it down. Than put your rotor back on and see if your run out is lower than 8 thou. You don't need to put it on a lathe.
When you knock rivits out of the hubs, there is a possiblity that the metal will knurl (spelling??) up. So you take a grinding wheel and lightly go over the rivit holes to ensure you have no knurls and it won't throw your run out off. This is pretty much the same concept.
Are you able to dial the inside of the rotor hat? Could that be off giving you your high run out. It's a good possibilty. Even w/new rotors we sometime run into a problem where the inside of the hat has an 8 or 9 thou run out.
Dan
Why don't you find the high spot on the hub and grind it down. Than put your rotor back on and see if your run out is lower than 8 thou. You don't need to put it on a lathe.
When you knock rivits out of the hubs, there is a possiblity that the metal will knurl (spelling??) up. So you take a grinding wheel and lightly go over the rivit holes to ensure you have no knurls and it won't throw your run out off. This is pretty much the same concept.
Are you able to dial the inside of the rotor hat? Could that be off giving you your high run out. It's a good possibilty. Even w/new rotors we sometime run into a problem where the inside of the hat has an 8 or 9 thou run out.
Dan
I could start shimming at this point but would like to get closer without shimming.
As for the rotor and hat runnout, Both sides of the rotor and the mounting face internally of the hat is machined as a unit at the same time. The relationship of the hat and the rotor are then marked so if taken apart they always go together by lining up the marks.
I am fussy about puttings things together, drilling small dimples, filling in with red paint and then machining as a unit . This guarantees minimum runout.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by jimvette999
you might check with gtr1999 (Gary) he's a machinist, maybe he has some ideas.
Jim
Jim
Bearing setup might also contribute to runout.
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Joined: May 2000
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From: Clearwater FL
Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
Thanks Dan this is what I have been thinking. Knock out the 5 studs then indicate the face finding the high spots. I would mark high or low at each of the 5 stud postions and then either set it up in the lathe to match these values and lightly skin cut the mounting face or like you said take a grinder a lightly knock off the high.
I could start shimming at this point but would like to get closer without shimming.
As for the rotor and hat runnout, Both sides of the rotor and the mounting face internally of the hat is machined as a unit at the same time. The relationship of the hat and the rotor are then marked so if taken apart they always go together by lining up the marks.
I am fussy about puttings things together, drilling small dimples, filling in with red paint and then machining as a unit . This guarantees minimum runout.
I could start shimming at this point but would like to get closer without shimming.
As for the rotor and hat runnout, Both sides of the rotor and the mounting face internally of the hat is machined as a unit at the same time. The relationship of the hat and the rotor are then marked so if taken apart they always go together by lining up the marks.
I am fussy about puttings things together, drilling small dimples, filling in with red paint and then machining as a unit . This guarantees minimum runout.
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by 68raggtop
Norval, mark the high and low spots on the hub with the amount ("0" and +/- .00?). When you chuck it in the lathe tap the face in until you get the same readings on the hub and face it off. When you re install it, it will be as close as your indicator readings were. If the hub face has any warp to it, just clean up lightly reinstall and mark again and it should come out very close.
Dave
Dave
Dan gave me the idea of maybe after knocking the studs out, I will replace the bearings as routine maintenance. Anway find the high spot and maybe with a flat file file the high spot. It might be .001 and with a 14 inch rotor is looks huge measured out there.
I was something to work on this weekend.
Something besides horeses at least
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by Vette_Tech
Remove the hub, Press and out the studs.
With a 3 jaw chuck in a lathe chuck the inside by the bearing hole, use the outer bearing cone to go between the live center and the outside bearing race, Then take a truing cut on the face of the hub uasually ,003 to .005 inches. This will thue the hub to the bearings and eliminate all hub runout.
With a 3 jaw chuck in a lathe chuck the inside by the bearing hole, use the outer bearing cone to go between the live center and the outside bearing race, Then take a truing cut on the face of the hub uasually ,003 to .005 inches. This will thue the hub to the bearings and eliminate all hub runout.
I will try a light file after finding the high spot and after adjusting the bearings again.
Take the hub out, running it between centers might be a hit and miss deal.
If I do chuck the hub I want to duplicate the hub face runnout.
Dan gave me the idea of just maybe grinding the spot lightly on the car. That will be my first attempt.