Steering Loose (HELP)
Thread Starter
"Rodstoration &am p;quot; In Progres
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,397
Likes: 1
From: Frisco TX
Steering Loose (HELP)
Finally had a chance to dive back into my "money pit" and drove it to work today. I've gone long enough without doing something about the steering... Need some advise in a bad way.
Steering feels very loose and the steering wheel has several inches of play in it. I've jacked the car up and the front wheels do not move (shift side to side)...i.e. no slack from there.
In November, I rebuilt the entire front end with Poly and double checked everything all is tight with no play at any area.
Am down to the steering box...and don't know squat about what goes on inside there nor if I can adjust the play from there and if that will tighten up the steering. Or is it worn out?
Question that continues to haunt me is why did I start to notice this after I finished the front end rebuild.
Oh yea.. it has been aligned...all is Good there.
Any help would be appreciated as the car becomes uncomfortable over 60mph.
Thanks in advance...
Steering feels very loose and the steering wheel has several inches of play in it. I've jacked the car up and the front wheels do not move (shift side to side)...i.e. no slack from there.
In November, I rebuilt the entire front end with Poly and double checked everything all is tight with no play at any area.
Am down to the steering box...and don't know squat about what goes on inside there nor if I can adjust the play from there and if that will tighten up the steering. Or is it worn out?
Question that continues to haunt me is why did I start to notice this after I finished the front end rebuild.
Oh yea.. it has been aligned...all is Good there.
Any help would be appreciated as the car becomes uncomfortable over 60mph.
Thanks in advance...
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 7
From: Ontario
Check the flexible joint between the steering column and steering box, sometimes referred to as a 'rag joint'. If it is worn out, you will see that it will be moving up against the metal safety pins.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,259
Likes: 7
From: Ontario
I think you need todo a little more problem determination to confirm it is the steering box. What I would do is....with the car safely on jack stands have someone move the steering wheel(within the slack range) while observing under the car. You say you checked the rag joint, but it sure sounds like this is the problem. Regardless of mileage, they dry rot just sitting. Look at the joint again closely with someone moving the wheel.
Last edited by Retro78; Mar 25, 2005 at 07:08 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 3
I have seen a lot of PS Corvettes with loose PS valves. I would check that first. With the engine running look to see that there is very little movement of the valve before the power assist moves the wheels.
Failing that, the steering box can be ajusted.
The GM Chassis Overhaul Manual has step by step instruction on how to adjust the steering box. You will need a 25 in-lb full scale torque wrench to do the job correctly as well as a pitman arm puller. To do the job right the box needs to have the pitman arm off so you can make the very subtle adjustments correctly. If you just set it "by feel" odds are that you will end up toasting the bearings and the recirculating ***** and races.
Failing that, the steering box can be ajusted.
The GM Chassis Overhaul Manual has step by step instruction on how to adjust the steering box. You will need a 25 in-lb full scale torque wrench to do the job correctly as well as a pitman arm puller. To do the job right the box needs to have the pitman arm off so you can make the very subtle adjustments correctly. If you just set it "by feel" odds are that you will end up toasting the bearings and the recirculating ***** and races.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Originally Posted by StickShiftCorvette
I have seen a lot of PS Corvettes with loose PS valves. I would check that first. With the engine running look to see that there is very little movement of the valve before the power assist moves the wheels.
.
.
Thread Starter
"Rodstoration &am p;quot; In Progres
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,397
Likes: 1
From: Frisco TX
Just put the car on the lift...
When I try to move the front wheels (by hand) I can shift it about 1/4 of an inch. The other wheel moves also and so does the steering wheel. There is a "clicking sound" also.. Is this normal?
When I try to move the front wheels (by hand) I can shift it about 1/4 of an inch. The other wheel moves also and so does the steering wheel. There is a "clicking sound" also.. Is this normal?
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 3,052
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver BC, Canada
my car also had loose steering. i ruled out the tie rods, PS, and idler arm. i thought the rag joint was ok, so i removed the steering box in order to re-adjust it. the first surprise was when the rag joint crumbled to pieces as i unbolted it. it was toast even though i thought it was ok. second surprise was discovering the box was completely dry. the internals were really worn after 56k miles and 32 yrs without fresh grease, but at least salvageable. so i rebuilt it and adjusted it as per factory specs. this, plus a new rag joint, made the system good as ever.
Last edited by Turbo-Jet; Mar 26, 2005 at 01:36 AM.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 663
Likes: 0
From: Honolulu Hawaii
Originally Posted by carguy4sure
Check the flexible joint between the steering column and steering box, sometimes referred to as a 'rag joint'. If it is worn out, you will see that it will be moving up against the metal safety pins.
I had the same problem, alot of play in my steering, replaced the rag joint and now it has a quicker response to it...
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 30,995
Likes: 99
From: Ontario
Lots of insight in this article.
http://www.corvettemagazine.com/2001...ing/steer1.asp
Or go here for volumes of info on steering.
http://www.corvettefaq.com/listing.asp?group=7
http://www.corvettemagazine.com/2001...ing/steer1.asp
Or go here for volumes of info on steering.
http://www.corvettefaq.com/listing.asp?group=7
Last edited by Paul L; Mar 26, 2005 at 07:54 AM.
Pro
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 607
Likes: 0
From: North Alabama
I ust took the looseness out of mine by adjusting the worm gear with the screw on top of the box. If you disconnect the shaft from the rag joint you can get a feel for if it is the box and if it is then you can tell if the box needs to be replaced or if you can adjust the worm.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,144
Likes: 195
From: Englewood FL
You may have a different problem from the clicking noise that you are
hearing than I had, but this may help:
On my 1980 I had a clicking noise whenever I turned the wheel. It
was noticeable with the engine off, just turn the wheel a bit. Also
had some play when turning the wheel.
Turned out all six screws that hold the steering wheel on had
loosened a bit.
hearing than I had, but this may help:
On my 1980 I had a clicking noise whenever I turned the wheel. It
was noticeable with the engine off, just turn the wheel a bit. Also
had some play when turning the wheel.
Turned out all six screws that hold the steering wheel on had
loosened a bit.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,175
Likes: 3,990
From: Connecticut, USA
I agree check the rag joint or just replace it. You can still buy the GM joint for about $60 buy one even if you don't want to change it now, they'll only go up in price and will eventually be obsoleted.
The worm shaft should turn freely and alos turn the pitman shaft equally. If you have the joint and pitman arm disconnected turning the worm as the input , the pitman arm should be turnign as the same time.
Be careful about adjusting the lash screw on the car, it can be done but it's better to remove the box to correctly adjust it.
The lash screw moves the pitman shaft up/down in the housing. The pitman shaft has a "rack" of teeth machined in a radius that mate with the teeth of the worm nut. The teeth are tapered and machined tighter on center. As the pitman shaft moves down it engages the taper to the point of binding it on center. If you over adjust it off center they teeth will gall over a short time and become loose. There's not much between good and bad with them. If the box has never been played with you'll probably have room to adjust it. Let me know if you have any questions before you adjust it.
Now you know about the "guts" of the box
Gary
The worm shaft should turn freely and alos turn the pitman shaft equally. If you have the joint and pitman arm disconnected turning the worm as the input , the pitman arm should be turnign as the same time.
Be careful about adjusting the lash screw on the car, it can be done but it's better to remove the box to correctly adjust it.
The lash screw moves the pitman shaft up/down in the housing. The pitman shaft has a "rack" of teeth machined in a radius that mate with the teeth of the worm nut. The teeth are tapered and machined tighter on center. As the pitman shaft moves down it engages the taper to the point of binding it on center. If you over adjust it off center they teeth will gall over a short time and become loose. There's not much between good and bad with them. If the box has never been played with you'll probably have room to adjust it. Let me know if you have any questions before you adjust it.
Now you know about the "guts" of the box
Gary
Thread Starter
&amp;quot;Rodstoration &am p;quot; In Progres
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,397
Likes: 1
From: Frisco TX
Thanks for all of the insight and advise everyone. I can rule out the PS control valve as it's new along with all of the front end joints. I'll order a rag joint and perhaps put a rebuilt steering box just to assure that I take this out of the mix. Of all aspects on the 80 vette...steering is something I don't want to take a chance with.
One last question.... while I had it up last night, I greased the new joints once again and noticed that the lower ball joints (new VanSteel units) were releasing grease just below the lower A arm when I pumped greased. Would have expected the grease to fill the overflow rubber bags below vs having it come out at the gap between the lower ball and A arm. Is this an issue? Can it have an impact on the steering "feel"?
One last question.... while I had it up last night, I greased the new joints once again and noticed that the lower ball joints (new VanSteel units) were releasing grease just below the lower A arm when I pumped greased. Would have expected the grease to fill the overflow rubber bags below vs having it come out at the gap between the lower ball and A arm. Is this an issue? Can it have an impact on the steering "feel"?
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: Newmarket Ontario
Originally Posted by Turbo-Jet
my car also had loose steering. i ruled out the tie rods, PS, and idler arm. i thought the rag joint was ok, so i removed the steering box in order to re-adjust it. the first surprise was when the rag joint crumbled to pieces as i unbolted it. it was toast even though i thought it was ok. second surprise was discovering the box was completely dry. the internals were really worn after 56k miles and 32 yrs without fresh grease, but at least salvageable. so i rebuilt it and adjusted it as per factory specs. this, plus a new rag joint, made the system good as ever.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,175
Likes: 3,990
From: Connecticut, USA
Originally Posted by canucbuck
What type of grease or lubricant do you put in the steering box?
Gary
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 30,995
Likes: 99
From: Ontario
Yes my 1979 box was dry as well. I used a chassis lithium grease mixed 75:25 with Mobil 1 engine oil. Gives a nice grease base with a mix of synthetic. Fill to 3/4 to allow for heat expansion. It will bleed with the oil for several weeks - Simple Green takes that off - and then you are good for 20 years. Turkey baster is the fill tool.
