Timing chain/gears, help with removal/install
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,083
Likes: 2
From: Montreal Qc.
Timing chain/gears, help with removal/install
Okay I DEFINITELY needed a new chain/gears. Here is the play in my old ones:
Since they are so loose, I can't tell if they are aligned right or have slipped/jumped. I had the balancer at TDC before I pulled it. My rotor is pointing between #8 and #4. The crank keyway is right now approx 5 o'clock. I haven't pulled the vc's to see if the valves are closed on #1. If you look at this picture (hi-res, too big to insert into thread)
http://pages.infinit.net/weevie/timing.jpg
can you tell if the crank and/or the cam is in the right place? I've never done this before, and I don't know where the "marks" are supposed to be on the gears. In my manual they are OBVIOUS (white painted dots...) but I see nothing quite so obvious on my car.
Did my balancer slip? Did my timing chain jump?
Oh, the car was running before I took it apart
TIA for any help.
-steve
Since they are so loose, I can't tell if they are aligned right or have slipped/jumped. I had the balancer at TDC before I pulled it. My rotor is pointing between #8 and #4. The crank keyway is right now approx 5 o'clock. I haven't pulled the vc's to see if the valves are closed on #1. If you look at this picture (hi-res, too big to insert into thread)
http://pages.infinit.net/weevie/timing.jpg
can you tell if the crank and/or the cam is in the right place? I've never done this before, and I don't know where the "marks" are supposed to be on the gears. In my manual they are OBVIOUS (white painted dots...) but I see nothing quite so obvious on my car.
Did my balancer slip? Did my timing chain jump?
Oh, the car was running before I took it apart
TIA for any help.
-steve
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 12,065
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From: Smalltownville Michigan
Cruise-In 5, 6 & 10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '09
if i am thinking right, align the dots up as close as you can and then pull the chain. then pull the chain and gear. when you put them on, realign the dots and you should be good to go...
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,083
Likes: 2
From: Montreal Qc.
Originally Posted by Aflac
if i am thinking right, align the dots up as close as you can and then pull the chain. then pull the chain and gear. when you put them on, realign the dots and you should be good to go...
Last edited by Star79; Jun 18, 2005 at 04:28 PM.
Advanced
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 72
Likes: 5
From: Wilmington DE
What, Me Worry?
Why are you so concerned about it. You will be able to see the dots on the new timing set. Put them on and line them up! There is an adapter that you can buy to make it easier to turn the crank without a bolt in it.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 847
Likes: 0
From: Des Allemands LA
Originally Posted by henderjl
Why are you so concerned about it. You will be able to see the dots on the new timing set. Put them on and line them up! There is an adapter that you can buy to make it easier to turn the crank without a bolt in it.
That's all you gotta do. Don't worry about valves hitting pistons or anything like that if that's what you're worried about. When you get the new set the timing gear mark will be at 6o'clock and crank gear at 12o'clock. Can't mess it up.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,083
Likes: 2
From: Montreal Qc.
I'm not worried I'll mess it up...I'm worried it's already messed up, or at least wondering what exactly is messed up. Remember my balancer was set RIGHT ON TDC, then I got it apart and the marks were as pictured below and my rotor was between 8 and 4. I'm assuming the arrow circled is the mark on the cam gear (I can't find anything else that looks like a "mark") If I turn the whole deal CCW until the crank gear mark is at 12:00, the pointer will also be at 12:00, the rotor will be nearer the #1 plugwire. That sounds like where everything should be, but then if I put the balancer back on it will be about 23 degrees AWAY from tdc.
Can anyone confirm that these marks are what I say they are? Is my balancer the only thing screwed up? I'm only concerned cause the first (and only) time I ever changed a timing set I could never get the car to run properly (340 Challenger about 20 years ago...)
Can anyone confirm that these marks are what I say they are? Is my balancer the only thing screwed up? I'm only concerned cause the first (and only) time I ever changed a timing set I could never get the car to run properly (340 Challenger about 20 years ago...)
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 847
Likes: 0
From: Des Allemands LA
Thats not the mark look closely around 5'oclock on the cam gear I think I see the same dot like on the gear. Another thing is don'y go entirely by the balancer. It's quite possible the ring has slipped. If what I see is the mark on the cam gear when you turn the crank gear to 12 o'clock the will be close to lining up. Go ahead and turn the crank dot to 12 oclock and look at the cam gear top and bottom and I think you will see your dot. Let me know.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 847
Likes: 0
From: Des Allemands LA
sorry had the pic flipped look at ten oclock on the cam gear there is your mark. You'll have to turn the motore a little more than a full turn. I am sure when you do this you will see your mark.
If you pm me I'll send you a marked up pic.
If you pm me I'll send you a marked up pic.
Last edited by ltlevil; Jun 19, 2005 at 01:43 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,502
Likes: 1,510
From: Little Rock AR
The keyway should be pointing to the drivers side deck surface when the crank is at #1 and #6 TDC position. If yours was in that position, you would be fine. Looking at the pix it appears that you are not there. 
Rotate the crank to that position and check the dots and damper position again.
-Mark.
Rotate the crank to that position and check the dots and damper position again.-Mark.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,083
Likes: 2
From: Montreal Qc.
I think I got it, thanks to the above replies. Steve the mark you emailed me wasn't a "dot", it was an oil smudge
I turned it over till the crank dot was at 12:00, the keyway was about 1:30 (driver's side deck surface as noted above, and agreed with my timing chain install instructions), rotor was very near #1, cam sprocket was very close (not exactly due to chain looseness) to having the "pointer" right at 12:00 and the dowel at 9:00 (again agreeing with instructions). Now it's back together, very nice and tight with a Cloyes dbl roller, dots lined up (both at 12:00, pics later, forgot my cam at home) and the only thing messed up will be the balancer when I put it back on, it must have slipped about a quarter turn. Is that possible and /or normal?
I turned it over till the crank dot was at 12:00, the keyway was about 1:30 (driver's side deck surface as noted above, and agreed with my timing chain install instructions), rotor was very near #1, cam sprocket was very close (not exactly due to chain looseness) to having the "pointer" right at 12:00 and the dowel at 9:00 (again agreeing with instructions). Now it's back together, very nice and tight with a Cloyes dbl roller, dots lined up (both at 12:00, pics later, forgot my cam at home) and the only thing messed up will be the balancer when I put it back on, it must have slipped about a quarter turn. Is that possible and /or normal?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,502
Likes: 1,510
From: Little Rock AR
Originally Posted by Star79
I think I got it, thanks to the above replies. Steve the mark you emailed me wasn't a "dot", it was an oil smudge
I turned it over till the crank dot was at 12:00, the keyway was about 1:30 (driver's side deck surface as noted above, and agreed with my timing chain install instructions), rotor was very near #1, cam sprocket was very close (not exactly due to chain looseness) to having the "pointer" right at 12:00 and the dowel at 9:00 (again agreeing with instructions). Now it's back together, very nice and tight with a Cloyes dbl roller, dots lined up (both at 12:00, pics later, forgot my cam at home) and the only thing messed up will be the balancer when I put it back on, it must have slipped about a quarter turn. Is that possible and /or normal?
I turned it over till the crank dot was at 12:00, the keyway was about 1:30 (driver's side deck surface as noted above, and agreed with my timing chain install instructions), rotor was very near #1, cam sprocket was very close (not exactly due to chain looseness) to having the "pointer" right at 12:00 and the dowel at 9:00 (again agreeing with instructions). Now it's back together, very nice and tight with a Cloyes dbl roller, dots lined up (both at 12:00, pics later, forgot my cam at home) and the only thing messed up will be the balancer when I put it back on, it must have slipped about a quarter turn. Is that possible and /or normal?
Keep in mind that with the dots "together" the engine is in the #6 TDC FIRING position. #6 and #1 pistons will both be at TDC but the cam is ready to fire only one of those cylinders and it is NOT #1! it is #6.
-Mark.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 10,896
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From: CO
I see you have that awsome original cam gear with the nylon teeth! When I did mine I couldn't figure out why they would have done that? Wouldnt it have been less expensive to just make the entire gear out of metal?
