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Starter for a 168 tooth vs. Starter for a 153 tooth?

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Starter for a 168 tooth vs. Starter for a 153 tooth?

Old 06-20-2005, 09:01 PM
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stingray_jim
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Default Starter for a 168 tooth vs. Starter for a 153 tooth?

Hi All - I finally dropped my new motor in my 68 on Saturday. When I went to bolt my starter (from the original motor that I believe to be a 153 tooth flywheel) I noticed the bolt holes on the new block were staggered. I transferred the flywheel from my original 327/300 motor on to the new motor. I am told the staggered bolt holes are for starters for the 168 tooth flywheel. It appears my original starter drive gear has ten teeth. Does the starter for the 168 tooth flywheel have more? Can I use the starter for the 168 tooth on the 153 tooth flywheel? If not I am screwed.

Many thanks any input anyone can give me.


Jim
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Old 06-20-2005, 09:23 PM
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Rdavis
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Check your block agian, as I believe most are drilled & tapped for both patterns. You can use the 168 tooth starter with a 153 tooth flywheel as long as you change the nose of the starter to the 153 tooth style (strait across pattern) I believe the noses are avabile from gm still. You can't bolt on the staggered pattern starter & have it work with the 153 tooth flywheel. To sum it up as long as your block has the strait across pattern also you just need a 153 tooth style nose. They are easy to change. I'll look & see if I can find the part # & get back to you.
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:56 AM
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327 engines use the staggered bolt pattern. I found that out when I tried to install a mini starter on my son's T-Bucket. It's a 67 327/300HP engine. I found it was easier to buy a new starter. Found one on EBay (new)for $59.95. It's a delco mini with a 4 to 1 reduction gear. Starts that baby right up and it has over 11 to 1 compression. And yes 327's have the 168 tooth flywheel.
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Old 06-21-2005, 08:21 AM
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It all hinges on the flywheel. The big flywheel uses the staggered starter nose cone. The small flywheel uses the in-line holes nose cone.

In the original applications, all 327's use the small flywheel. The 350's are "usualy" the bigger flywheel but there are some smaller flywheel 350's. "Most" big blocks use the larger flywheels but there are just a few very high HP big blocks that do use the smaller flywheel. It does get a bit confusing. You can swap setups if the block is drilled for the other starter nose bolt pattern BUT you need to change the whole enchalada including: the starter nose cone, the 2 bolts, the flywheel, the clutch assy, and the bellhousing. You can not mix and match those parts as they work together as a team.

You could use the smaller disk in the bigger pressure plate but that would be more of a racing type mod where you wanted a little bit of slip to control the launch.

-Mark.
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Old 06-21-2005, 12:33 PM
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The 168 tooth flywheel is larger in diameter than the 153. The pinion gear on the starter has to be postioned further from the centerline of the crank with the bigger flywheel. That's why the two designs have different bolt patterns. They are not interchangeable and the bolt pattern difference is intended to prevent one style from being bolted in place of the other.
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Old 06-21-2005, 08:30 PM
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Thanks Guys,

So it appears that I can:

1) swap the snout/drive gear
2) Buy a mini starter that has universal bolt patterns (one for staggered or flat style alingment).

Has anyone done either?

Jim
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Old 06-21-2005, 10:05 PM
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any real starter rebuilder should be able to swap your nose...make sure you pay him to install a new bushing...
...redvetracr
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:22 PM
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Default not true

Originally Posted by djgrelli View Post
327 engines use the staggered bolt pattern. I found that out when I tried to install a mini starter on my son's T-Bucket. It's a 67 327/300HP engine. I found it was easier to buy a new starter. Found one on EBay (new)for $59.95. It's a delco mini with a 4 to 1 reduction gear. Starts that baby right up and it has over 11 to 1 compression. And yes 327's have the 168 tooth flywheel.
not all 327 engines are the same earlier 60s used small crank journal and internally balanced flexplate with 153 teeth and 12 3/4 diameter 67-69 are rare and they use same large crank just as the 350 ci. I have 65 Chevy Impala with 327 mine is 153
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by stingray_jim View Post
Thanks Guys,

So it appears that I can:

1) swap the snout/drive gear
2) Buy a mini starter that has universal bolt patterns (one for staggered or flat style alingment).

Has anyone done either?

Jim
It all comes down to whether you have both bolt patterns on your block...which you should. IF you have the straight across pattern...you can install the nose piece for a small flywheel. If not...you can only use a large flywheel with the staggered starter bolt pattern and matching nose.

I have a mini-starter on mine with two separate 'straight across" bolt patterns. It will work on both large and small flywheels...but it still bolts to the 'straight across" bolt pattern on the block. I haven't seen a staggered pattern starter for a small flywheel.

Or you could drill/tap the additional hole.....


JIM

Last edited by 427Hotrod; 10-10-2018 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 10-11-2018, 07:47 AM
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2005 Thread guys.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:16 AM
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Rodney, check your dates before starting a debate. These cars could be long gone now, 13 yrs later.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:08 AM
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Oops...missed that......jeez....

JIM

Last edited by 427Hotrod; 10-11-2018 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:32 PM
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Bet it was a related thread.
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Old 10-12-2018, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 427Hotrod View Post
Oops...missed that......jeez....

JIM
Your vision was impaired by the "Full Face Shield".
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by HeadsU.P. View Post
Your vision was impaired by the "Full Face Shield".
LOL....that's my Russian MiG helmet.....very interesting story behind that one!

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