Suspension input - 77 L48, 9 Leaf
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 603
Likes: 2
From: Illinois, USA
Suspension input - 77 L48, 9 Leaf
I've been spending some serious time under my 77 C3, and I wanted some input on the suspension. I can tell the shocks looks majorly rusted, and the bushings are all decomposing that it's time.
The system is pretty light, from what I've read. I have a 9 leaf spring in the rear, and no rear antiroll bar.
Now, here's my driving style: I don't tend to baby a car, even one like this. I will lean on it in the corners and today the body roll is noticeable. In fact, it is so bad that I feel like the car has major oversteer.
So, what parts should I look at? I have seen on ecklers they have a number of packages to upgrade the whole deal. I think the poly bushings is a good idea, I know I need new shocks, but don't know what was there before. The leaf spring isn't broken, but the bottom spring is twisted from the rest -- figured I'd replace it.
I've seen Bilstein appears to be respected, but is that overkill for my L48? Do I add the rear antiroll bar? I am not going to drag race or road-coarse it ...but I'm always faster than the others around me in the turns.
The more I read, the more I'm not sure what's right for my use.
Thanks in advance for any input....
Brian.
The system is pretty light, from what I've read. I have a 9 leaf spring in the rear, and no rear antiroll bar.
Now, here's my driving style: I don't tend to baby a car, even one like this. I will lean on it in the corners and today the body roll is noticeable. In fact, it is so bad that I feel like the car has major oversteer.
So, what parts should I look at? I have seen on ecklers they have a number of packages to upgrade the whole deal. I think the poly bushings is a good idea, I know I need new shocks, but don't know what was there before. The leaf spring isn't broken, but the bottom spring is twisted from the rest -- figured I'd replace it.
I've seen Bilstein appears to be respected, but is that overkill for my L48? Do I add the rear antiroll bar? I am not going to drag race or road-coarse it ...but I'm always faster than the others around me in the turns.
The more I read, the more I'm not sure what's right for my use.
Thanks in advance for any input....
Brian.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 2
From: Allen TX
Get new shocks and also replace all your bushings with poly bushings. Replacing those 30 year old bushings will make a huge difference as will new shocks. Once you do this see how you like the ride/performance and then look into aftermarket springs and sway bars.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 3
From: Burlington WI
Aword of warning...
I ordered the 9 leaf 2-1/2" spring from Mid America and:
1. It was "Made in Malaysia"
2. It raised the rear of the car up so high I had to install 8" bolts from Caterpillar to settle it back down.
Other guys have posted here that the VB&P springs are correct. NOW I know that...
My car does ride and handle remarkably better now. It just took some extra effort and expense.
Chris B
1. It was "Made in Malaysia"
2. It raised the rear of the car up so high I had to install 8" bolts from Caterpillar to settle it back down.
Other guys have posted here that the VB&P springs are correct. NOW I know that...
My car does ride and handle remarkably better now. It just took some extra effort and expense.
Chris B
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 603
Likes: 2
From: Illinois, USA
Originally Posted by CrossedFlags77
Get new shocks and also replace all your bushings with poly bushings. Replacing those 30 year old bushings will make a huge difference as will new shocks. Once you do this see how you like the ride/performance and then look into aftermarket springs and sway bars.
I certainly am not trying to get this to ride soft like mom's station wagon or mini-van. I'm expecting that the suspension should be a little stiffer to handle the performance that I hope it will again be capable of.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,269
Likes: 54
From: Orlando Florida
St. Jude Donor '05
Definately start with all the bushings, some say poly squeeks, some they they don't, mine are fine..... it's a little harsher than rubber I assume but my rubber bushings were so worn that I cannot tell what exactly made more of a difference: the material or the simple fact that the bushings now fit properly....
Now look at springs - the 9-leaf that I have was re-arched at some time in the past. Now I need 9" bolts to get the ride height down to where it should be. A 7-leaf is stiffer, those from VBP have good feedback here on the forum (quality and ride height).
The Bilstein shocks are worth every penny, especially with the 550lbs front springs.
The 460lbs springs raise the front by 1.5" - 2" .... there are several threads on that subject, do a search.
Now look at springs - the 9-leaf that I have was re-arched at some time in the past. Now I need 9" bolts to get the ride height down to where it should be. A 7-leaf is stiffer, those from VBP have good feedback here on the forum (quality and ride height).
The Bilstein shocks are worth every penny, especially with the 550lbs front springs.
The 460lbs springs raise the front by 1.5" - 2" .... there are several threads on that subject, do a search.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,339
Likes: 24
From: I can walk to MA
Just grease the poop outta the poly bushings, and they will not squeak.
IMO - the adjustable strut rods are the way to go (VB&P).
The Bilsteins are nice - no doubt. However, with a steel spring the KYBs should be fine.
The need for a rear sway bar will be argued ad-nauseum.
IF you decide to put a rear bar on - make sure it is MATCHED to the size of the front bar.
Test drive in a big empty parking lot before taking any corners at high speeds.
I just finished bolting up the front/rear bar set from ZIP ... 1 1/8" in front
and 3/4" in the rear. I debated over and over in my head - whether
to install the rear or not. I will try it on for now ... test drive in July.
It is a pretty nice set with all hardware and poly bushings/end links.
Note that it is not the original (rear) style - which is a better (hinged) design.
Aftermarket rear bars use an end link like the front - into a plate bolted to the trailing arm.
BTW - my front coils are 460 lb/in Spicer #5851174, and they
installed normally to give an 'off the shelf' fender lip height of
27 inches. No coil cutting here - yet.
... got 'em at my local parts store for under $50.
IMO - the adjustable strut rods are the way to go (VB&P).
The Bilsteins are nice - no doubt. However, with a steel spring the KYBs should be fine.
The need for a rear sway bar will be argued ad-nauseum.
IF you decide to put a rear bar on - make sure it is MATCHED to the size of the front bar.
Test drive in a big empty parking lot before taking any corners at high speeds.
I just finished bolting up the front/rear bar set from ZIP ... 1 1/8" in front
and 3/4" in the rear. I debated over and over in my head - whether
to install the rear or not. I will try it on for now ... test drive in July.
It is a pretty nice set with all hardware and poly bushings/end links.
Note that it is not the original (rear) style - which is a better (hinged) design.
Aftermarket rear bars use an end link like the front - into a plate bolted to the trailing arm.
BTW - my front coils are 460 lb/in Spicer #5851174, and they
installed normally to give an 'off the shelf' fender lip height of
27 inches.
No coil cutting here - yet.... got 'em at my local parts store for under $50.
Last edited by NHvette; Jun 21, 2005 at 09:16 AM.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 377
Likes: 1
From: Anchorage Alaska
The 460lbs springs raise the front by 1.5" - 2" .... there are several threads on that subject, do a search.
Oh crap! I just ordered the 460# springs from VBP. Are you saying I'll have to cut them? How much do you think?
Oh crap! I just ordered the 460# springs from VBP. Are you saying I'll have to cut them? How much do you think?
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 1
From: Ontario
Originally Posted by C3nMe
I've been spending some serious time under my 77 C3, and I wanted some input on the suspension.
Van Steel Suspension Video
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,269
Likes: 54
From: Orlando Florida
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by 73 Vet
The 460lbs springs raise the front by 1.5" - 2" .... there are several threads on that subject, do a search.
Oh crap! I just ordered the 460# springs from VBP. Are you saying I'll have to cut them? How much do you think?
Oh crap! I just ordered the 460# springs from VBP. Are you saying I'll have to cut them? How much do you think?
You'll have to cut at least 3/4 coil to get to 27". Mine was at 29.25" or so when I had those.... I bought the 550s and now it's at 27" and some change.... they are definately not harsh with the Bilstein shocks. The KYBs don't have enough rebound dampening to control this heavy spring, that's why it will be bouncy and harsh - you will be riding on the spring with insufficient dampening.
the KYBs are fine for the rear with the 9 leaf spring but the good deal on Bilsteins is only on a set of four ($250)...
I'd call VBP and change the order to the 550s...
Racer
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 377
Likes: 1
From: Anchorage Alaska
Here's a quote from MassVette on 6/18: I used the 460# GT springs from Vette Brakes & Products. They lowered the car about 2" in the front.
According to Jeff at VBP, the 460's are supposed to provide "original" spec ride-hight.
According to Jeff at VBP, the 460's are supposed to provide "original" spec ride-hight.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,439
Likes: 1
From: Hagerstown MD
I have a '77 L48, but my car started with the FE7 suspension (7 leaf rear spring, rear sway bar). The factory rear sway bar is a little bitty 7/16" unit... most aftermarket rear bars are bigger than that. As a previous poster said, make sure that the rear bar is matched to the front bar. Front bar is 1 1/16" if I remember correctly.
Springs: I went with the 550's up front and a 355 glass spring in the rear (Muskegon Brake).
Bushings: I went with rubber on the A-arms and T-arms, and poly everywhere else. They came with grease and I used plenty of grease on installation and they do not squeak.
Shocks: Konis set on full soft (as soft as they get).
I have a VERY nice riding car that makes no excuses when I want to tackle the twisties. I also have a 1970 Porsche 911 that is set up for track use, and the suspension in the 911 is so hard that it hurts to ride in that car for more than an hour; by comparison, I can comfortably drive the Vette all day with my setup.
Springs: I went with the 550's up front and a 355 glass spring in the rear (Muskegon Brake).
Bushings: I went with rubber on the A-arms and T-arms, and poly everywhere else. They came with grease and I used plenty of grease on installation and they do not squeak.
Shocks: Konis set on full soft (as soft as they get).
I have a VERY nice riding car that makes no excuses when I want to tackle the twisties. I also have a 1970 Porsche 911 that is set up for track use, and the suspension in the 911 is so hard that it hurts to ride in that car for more than an hour; by comparison, I can comfortably drive the Vette all day with my setup.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 16,100
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by C3nMe
Is the Bilstein shocks worth it, or are the Monroe or KYB that I hear mentioned from time to time adequate?
I certainly am not trying to get this to ride soft like mom's station wagon or mini-van. I'm expecting that the suspension should be a little stiffer to handle the performance that I hope it will again be capable of.
I certainly am not trying to get this to ride soft like mom's station wagon or mini-van. I'm expecting that the suspension should be a little stiffer to handle the performance that I hope it will again be capable of.
Last edited by rihwoods; Jun 21, 2005 at 02:09 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
From: Newington CT
Anyone ever try the Eckler's Max Performance package?
http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?d...QM55X250R5ASWA
I assume that everything is matched pretty well. It seems like it might make things easier...
http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?d...QM55X250R5ASWA
I assume that everything is matched pretty well. It seems like it might make things easier...
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 603
Likes: 2
From: Illinois, USA
Originally Posted by rihwoods
Whatever you install back there,new spring/shocks/squeaky poly bushings,etc,go get a four wheel alignment done afterwards....and take it to someone who knows how to shim a Vette.Recommend you look at "advanced"street alignment set-up which is not to radical...there is suggestions for "stock","advanced street" and "autocross" on one of these Vendor (suspension) sites.(can't remember)..."Autocross" set up not recommended for street BTW...
It does look, however, like the Bilsteins are in my future.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 603
Likes: 2
From: Illinois, USA
Originally Posted by zymurgist
I have a '77 L48, but my car started with the FE7 suspension (7 leaf rear spring, rear sway bar). The factory rear sway bar is a little bitty 7/16" unit... most aftermarket rear bars are bigger than that. As a previous poster said, make sure that the rear bar is matched to the front bar. Front bar is 1 1/16" if I remember correctly.
Springs: I went with the 550's up front and a 355 glass spring in the rear (Muskegon Brake).
Bushings: I went with rubber on the A-arms and T-arms, and poly everywhere else. They came with grease and I used plenty of grease on installation and they do not squeak.
Shocks: Konis set on full soft (as soft as they get).
I have a VERY nice riding car that makes no excuses when I want to tackle the twisties. I also have a 1970 Porsche 911 that is set up for track use, and the suspension in the 911 is so hard that it hurts to ride in that car for more than an hour; by comparison, I can comfortably drive the Vette all day with my setup.
Springs: I went with the 550's up front and a 355 glass spring in the rear (Muskegon Brake).
Bushings: I went with rubber on the A-arms and T-arms, and poly everywhere else. They came with grease and I used plenty of grease on installation and they do not squeak.
Shocks: Konis set on full soft (as soft as they get).
I have a VERY nice riding car that makes no excuses when I want to tackle the twisties. I also have a 1970 Porsche 911 that is set up for track use, and the suspension in the 911 is so hard that it hurts to ride in that car for more than an hour; by comparison, I can comfortably drive the Vette all day with my setup.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,689
Likes: 1
From: St Petersburg FL
St. Jude Donor '07,'13
Originally Posted by twistdpair
Anyone ever try the Eckler's Max Performance package?
http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?d...QM55X250R5ASWA
I assume that everything is matched pretty well. It seems like it might make things easier...
http://www.ecklers.com/product.asp?d...QM55X250R5ASWA
I assume that everything is matched pretty well. It seems like it might make things easier...
http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=474
Eckler's has distributed our suspension systems for many years now...
As far as coils, The 460 coils on my '78 put my car back to stock ride height (28-3/4"). That looks too high for me but is correct. I prefer the 550 coils the drop the car 1" to 1.75" and Bilstein shocks. The ride is very firm, but not harsh. Hope this helps.
PS - like others have said, be careful with adding a rear sway bar. If your spring rates and sway bar diameters are not properly matched front to back, your car will not be fun to drive, it will be an adventure.
Hope this helps.
Alan G.
Vette Brakes & Products, Inc.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 377
Likes: 1
From: Anchorage Alaska
Originally Posted by VBP
That’s a very good system - kind of like this one:
http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=474
Eckler's has distributed our suspension systems for many years now...
As far as coils, The 460 coils on my '78 put my car back to stock ride height (28-3/4"). That looks too high for me but is correct. I prefer the 550 coils the drop the car 1" to 1.75" and Bilstein shocks. The ride is very firm, but not harsh. Hope this helps.
PS - like others have said, be careful with adding a rear sway bar. If your spring rates and sway bar diameters are not properly matched front to back, your car will not be fun to drive, it will be an adventure.
Hope this helps.
Alan G.
Vette Brakes & Products, Inc.
http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=474
Eckler's has distributed our suspension systems for many years now...
As far as coils, The 460 coils on my '78 put my car back to stock ride height (28-3/4"). That looks too high for me but is correct. I prefer the 550 coils the drop the car 1" to 1.75" and Bilstein shocks. The ride is very firm, but not harsh. Hope this helps.
PS - like others have said, be careful with adding a rear sway bar. If your spring rates and sway bar diameters are not properly matched front to back, your car will not be fun to drive, it will be an adventure.
Hope this helps.
Alan G.
Vette Brakes & Products, Inc.
I just ordered the 460's. Have you any idea how much I'll need to cut to get to around 27"?
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
From: Newington CT
Originally Posted by VBP
That’s a very good system - kind of like this one:
http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=474
Eckler's has distributed our suspension systems for many years now....
http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=474
Eckler's has distributed our suspension systems for many years now....
Thanks for the tipoff Alan. If I decide to take the plunge this summer I know how to save a couple hundred...
-corky
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 16,100
Likes: 17
Originally Posted by C3nMe
I have done a fair amount of looking at the packages on Ecklers and they seem to have enough selection of different levels. Granted, I'd like to do this once (for now) and not have to do it again unless it needs it. I don't have 2K to throw at it right now, so I'm going to start with replacing the front drag links and bushings and the sway bar bushings. I'll keep looking.
It does look, however, like the Bilsteins are in my future.
It does look, however, like the Bilsteins are in my future.
Edit....in fact you can do what I'm suggesting for under $600.00.
