MSD ignition question.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,443
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
MSD ignition question.
It’s new distributor time. I’m down to couple final contestants. After reading as much as could find on each of them the MSD digital E-curve might be the best. I like the idea of rotary switch to set the total timing advance and courve
I have a couple of questions for you MSD users. Can you buy female type caps? All that is shown is male. The reason is I’m using over $100 plug wires and it seems like just a waste to not be able to use them with an ignition change.
My other question is: My present optical unit requires a ballast resistor on the coil. Do the MSD units require one also?
I have a couple of questions for you MSD users. Can you buy female type caps? All that is shown is male. The reason is I’m using over $100 plug wires and it seems like just a waste to not be able to use them with an ignition change.
My other question is: My present optical unit requires a ballast resistor on the coil. Do the MSD units require one also?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,429
Likes: 14
From: CA
Originally Posted by gkull
My other question is: My present optical unit requires a ballast resistor on the coil. Do the MSD units require one also?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 14
From: Tolar Texas
I recently installed a CraneCams Street/Race Distributor
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...27&showAll=yes
Along with a Crane HI-6 Performance CD Ignition
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brow...umber=6000-6440
It only has a combination of 3 vacuum and 9 centrifugal advance curves to choose from but so far I'm satisfied with it. It's nice not having to wonder if my timing curve is stable or not. Simply set it and forget it!
I probably should have chosen the MSD E-curve. I would have saved money because it doesn't require an ignition box.
One nice feature of the Crane distributor is having the vacuum and centrifugal curve switches on the outside of the distributor for easy access. However, once you find the correct combination you will rarely mess with it.
Another selling point of the MSD Digital E-Curve Distributor is that it has more advance combinations. 5 vacuum and 20 centrifugal advance curves.
http://www.msdignition.com/2005/2005_4.htm
Go with the MSD. . . That way we can learn more about it.
I'll try to post some install / setup info regarding my ignition system sometime.
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brows...27&showAll=yes
Along with a Crane HI-6 Performance CD Ignition
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brow...umber=6000-6440
It only has a combination of 3 vacuum and 9 centrifugal advance curves to choose from but so far I'm satisfied with it. It's nice not having to wonder if my timing curve is stable or not. Simply set it and forget it!
I probably should have chosen the MSD E-curve. I would have saved money because it doesn't require an ignition box.
One nice feature of the Crane distributor is having the vacuum and centrifugal curve switches on the outside of the distributor for easy access. However, once you find the correct combination you will rarely mess with it.
Another selling point of the MSD Digital E-Curve Distributor is that it has more advance combinations. 5 vacuum and 20 centrifugal advance curves.
http://www.msdignition.com/2005/2005_4.htm
Go with the MSD. . . That way we can learn more about it.
I'll try to post some install / setup info regarding my ignition system sometime.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,443
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
ACP the Unilite is going in a new racers 396 ci small block 65 nova SS drag car. He just didn't have the money to get it going and I'm tired of looking at it sitting still waiting for more money to be thrown into it.
I went down to summit and bought the MSD "E" and New Taylor 409 Pro wires. That way he will have a complete unit with taylor 409 wires and spare caps and moduals with coil and balast resistor.
I have the Crane digital H-6R and coil with the MSD dist. I'll have to figure out the tach. Both my Crane digital and MSD dist have tach outputs. I was also using the Crane box for rev limiter and the dist has a rev limiter also.
Crane would have been a cleaner install because everything would have been Crane, But I need the 15 degree max advance so I can have 17 intial at idle.
I went down to summit and bought the MSD "E" and New Taylor 409 Pro wires. That way he will have a complete unit with taylor 409 wires and spare caps and moduals with coil and balast resistor.
I have the Crane digital H-6R and coil with the MSD dist. I'll have to figure out the tach. Both my Crane digital and MSD dist have tach outputs. I was also using the Crane box for rev limiter and the dist has a rev limiter also.
Crane would have been a cleaner install because everything would have been Crane, But I need the 15 degree max advance so I can have 17 intial at idle.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,443
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
It took awhile to solder and shrink wrap, but it fired up on the first hit of the key.
The dial switches work as advertised. I set it to 15 degree electronic advance with 19 initial to get 34 all in at 3000. With just a few dial clicks I can change it from all in at 2000, 2500, 3000, 3500
Your given choices of advance curves of 10, 15, 20 ,25 degrees. Then you just set the initial different. I might try 14 initial and 20 advance.
The dial switches work as advertised. I set it to 15 degree electronic advance with 19 initial to get 34 all in at 3000. With just a few dial clicks I can change it from all in at 2000, 2500, 3000, 3500
Your given choices of advance curves of 10, 15, 20 ,25 degrees. Then you just set the initial different. I might try 14 initial and 20 advance.
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Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,770
Likes: 3
From: St Louis MO
Great! Glad you like it. How does it compare to the old stuff? Have you had time to fiddle with the other curves? How does it stack up performance-wise?
I asked about this dist. a few months back but no one had one. I didn't want to be the experiment...
I asked about this dist. a few months back but no one had one. I didn't want to be the experiment...
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,443
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Brettmc - I'm happy 
Even 20 settings is 18 or 19 more then you will use. The good part is it is electronic and every time it will repeat itself. From years of experience I know mechanical advances can not be as accurate. The bushing ware and the springs change with heat and time.
I looked at using a locked out dist. and them using a start retard device. I considered all the options and when you add it up $400 for this electronic dist. didn’t sound so bad.
The real advantage right off is no screwing around setting the max advance. Modern heads like the GM fast burn can make the most HP at 28 or so degrees total advance. My Dart and AFR head only want about 32 -34 degrees. My Mallory ignition was hard to change total mechanical max advance. Other distributers were just time consuming. Springs and weights and then some type of stop adjustment.
Even 20 settings is 18 or 19 more then you will use. The good part is it is electronic and every time it will repeat itself. From years of experience I know mechanical advances can not be as accurate. The bushing ware and the springs change with heat and time.
I looked at using a locked out dist. and them using a start retard device. I considered all the options and when you add it up $400 for this electronic dist. didn’t sound so bad.
The real advantage right off is no screwing around setting the max advance. Modern heads like the GM fast burn can make the most HP at 28 or so degrees total advance. My Dart and AFR head only want about 32 -34 degrees. My Mallory ignition was hard to change total mechanical max advance. Other distributers were just time consuming. Springs and weights and then some type of stop adjustment.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,443
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
On the advance I'm using the lowest setting which is 10 degrees @10 inches of vacuum. I just drove it yesterday and it runs nice, but it also ran nice before.
I really need to set up some kind of valid test perameters. 1/4 mile drag testing has to many other things going on and your not really using the advance curve when you have a 3800 stall converter like I do. The only thing I can think of is put the tranny in 4th gear over drive at about 1500 rpm and lock the torque converter. Then click a stop watch at the same you go flat on the floor with the gas petal and click the watch when the tachometer hits 4000 rpm which is about 120 mph. Just keep repeating the test after changing the dial settings.
I really need to set up some kind of valid test perameters. 1/4 mile drag testing has to many other things going on and your not really using the advance curve when you have a 3800 stall converter like I do. The only thing I can think of is put the tranny in 4th gear over drive at about 1500 rpm and lock the torque converter. Then click a stop watch at the same you go flat on the floor with the gas petal and click the watch when the tachometer hits 4000 rpm which is about 120 mph. Just keep repeating the test after changing the dial settings.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,804
Likes: 1
From: OKC Oklahoma
Hey George, what compression ratio are you running on that monster? I have almost all of my parts together for my 396 small block(thanks for all the info by the way). The only thing I am concerned with is the 11.2:1 CR, I'll have. I am polishing the chambers on my aluminum heads, I also have a Steward stage 3 high flow aluminum water pump and full MSD set up. I was also considering running a retard box. The cam is a Howard's hydraulic roller(234/242duration-547 lift., 112 lsa) I've considered getting the valves and pistons coated at Airborne here in town. I guess I'm kinda paranoid about detonation. Any thoughts?
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,443
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
When I built my 383 with 11.2 compressions, I had to pay close attention to my quench height…… I had my pistons, chambers, and exhaust valves thermal coated. I would not worry about have aluminum chambers polished. Aluminum transfers heat so fast that it’s not like the old cast iron day heads.
Thermally coated pistons – I can’t say enough about them. It’s a must on quality motors.
How many negative cc are your piston valve relief’s? What is your chamber size and what is your piston to deck?
The rule is a tighter quench of @.040 is more detonation resistant than a .050 or larger with less compression. That’s why I use the thin .020 copper head gaskets instead of compressed .038 off the shelf FelPro’s
Could you give me those answers and i want to do some figuring. I'd get the pistons coated. The chamber and valve coatings were just for more power and less heat loss to the water jackets.
Thermally coated pistons – I can’t say enough about them. It’s a must on quality motors.
How many negative cc are your piston valve relief’s? What is your chamber size and what is your piston to deck?
The rule is a tighter quench of @.040 is more detonation resistant than a .050 or larger with less compression. That’s why I use the thin .020 copper head gaskets instead of compressed .038 off the shelf FelPro’s
Could you give me those answers and i want to do some figuring. I'd get the pistons coated. The chamber and valve coatings were just for more power and less heat loss to the water jackets.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,804
Likes: 1
From: OKC Oklahoma
The pistons are flat top Keith Black hypers with 6cc valve reliefs. 4.030 bore, 3.875 stroke, 6 inch rod, 1.061" deck height. With a zero deck that leaves the piston .0015" in the hole. I'm not sure what the deal is, but at work I use a CR calculator that puts me at 11.2 with a .039 head gasket which will give me .0405 quench, however with the CR calculators I pull up at home, it says 11.3:1. I'm thinking I'll still be ok with .0425 quench with a .041 head gasket(11.25:1CR). I'm not positive what the bore size is for the head gaskets, so that changes things a little bit. BTW-Airborne will not coat the combustion chambers anymore.
I still plan to polish the combustion chambers and have the pistons and valves coated.
I still plan to polish the combustion chambers and have the pistons and valves coated.
Originally Posted by gkull
When I built my 383 with 11.2 compressions, I had to pay close attention to my quench height…… I had my pistons, chambers, and exhaust valves thermal coated. I would not worry about have aluminum chambers polished. Aluminum transfers heat so fast that it’s not like the old cast iron day heads.
Thermally coated pistons – I can’t say enough about them. It’s a must on quality motors.
How many negative cc are your piston valve relief’s? What is your chamber size and what is your piston to deck?
The rule is a tighter quench of @.040 is more detonation resistant than a .050 or larger with less compression. That’s why I use the thin .020 copper head gaskets instead of compressed .038 off the shelf FelPro’s
Could you give me those answers and i want to do some figuring. I'd get the pistons coated. The chamber and valve coatings were just for more power and less heat loss to the water jackets.
Thermally coated pistons – I can’t say enough about them. It’s a must on quality motors.
How many negative cc are your piston valve relief’s? What is your chamber size and what is your piston to deck?
The rule is a tighter quench of @.040 is more detonation resistant than a .050 or larger with less compression. That’s why I use the thin .020 copper head gaskets instead of compressed .038 off the shelf FelPro’s
Could you give me those answers and i want to do some figuring. I'd get the pistons coated. The chamber and valve coatings were just for more power and less heat loss to the water jackets.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Glad to see you finally got a good setup. I have had mine for years and really like it.
As for how it works, why not just go by the seat of the pants and pick a setting that feels good to you, doesn't stumble around town, idles good, the retart start will aid starting and forget the tinny bit of performance you might pick up if you go all out.
The car is a street driven car and you rack up more miles in a year then I do in 20 Pick what works best on the street in day to day driving.
As for how it works, why not just go by the seat of the pants and pick a setting that feels good to you, doesn't stumble around town, idles good, the retart start will aid starting and forget the tinny bit of performance you might pick up if you go all out.
The car is a street driven car and you rack up more miles in a year then I do in 20 Pick what works best on the street in day to day driving.
