Finding Out If My Scatter Shield Is True
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: San Diego CA
Finding Out If My Scatter Shield Is True
I am going to buy the TKO-600. Anyway I plan to use the original scatter shield currently mated to the M-21. How do I find out if it's dimensions are true (exactly flat) Obvious idea is to use measuring tape and a level but if any of you brainiacs out there have a better method feel free...................
David
David
Race Director
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From: Forked River NJ
You will never get it with a measuring tape and level. You need dial indicaters and granite stone if you want to get it perfect. You will also need dial indicaters if you want to make sure it is true to the crank. We are talking thousandths of an inch here. Tape measure and levels are OK for building houses but not for cars. 
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,938
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From: San Diego CA
Granite stone.....
I'm confused here. are we talking about putting in counter tops or transmissions?
Seriously....granite???
Oh by the way I used to work on Gas Turbines where the tolerances are quite a lot tighter. Try ten thosands of an inch.
I'm confused here. are we talking about putting in counter tops or transmissions?
Seriously....granite???Oh by the way I used to work on Gas Turbines where the tolerances are quite a lot tighter. Try ten thosands of an inch.
Last edited by Cali,68,L-79; Aug 17, 2005 at 05:16 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,752
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From: Austin Texas
Originally Posted by Cali,68,L-79
Granite stone.....
I'm confused here. are we talking about putting in counter tops or transmissions? Seriously....granite???
I'm confused here. are we talking about putting in counter tops or transmissions?
Seriously....granite???
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,322
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From: Living in the Hartland
Originally Posted by big_G
Doesn't everyone have a granite stone in their garage?......sorry, I can't help myself
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,938
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From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by Fevre
When I was heavy into bodybuilding I was often mistaken for granite.
Okay now back to this granite thing. Please elaborate.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 10,362
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From: San Diego - Deep Within The State of CONFUSION!
Originally Posted by Cali,68,L-79
I am going to buy the TKO-600. Anyway I plan to use the original scatter shield currently mated to the M-21. How do I find out if it's dimensions are true (exactly flat) Obvious idea is to use measuring tape and a level but if any of you brainiacs out there have a better method feel free...................
David
David
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Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Forked River NJ
A granite piece of stone is often used because it is very stable and remains very flat once it has been surfaced. You mount the indicater and have it on the stone along with the bellhousing or whatever you are measuring. It provides a flat stable base as you move the indicater over the bellhousing. I'm surprised working with gas turbines you never saw one. They are usually about the size of a kitchen table and about a foot or better thick. They are used a lot for precise measuring.
It would crush the kitchen caninets.
Here is a small one. They go very large
It would crush the kitchen caninets.
Here is a small one. They go very large
Last edited by Gordonm; Aug 17, 2005 at 05:30 PM.
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Race Director
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From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
YOu need a dial indicator with a magentic base, you attach it to the crankshaft/flywheel and turn the motor over.
There are two measurement to be made, the first is cocentricity where you check runout of the opening itself or in other words is the opening centered around the center of the crankshaft.
THe second is parallelism, is fhe face where the transmission is bolted to parralell to the crankshaft.
Lots of fun on your back in the garage
There are two measurement to be made, the first is cocentricity where you check runout of the opening itself or in other words is the opening centered around the center of the crankshaft.
THe second is parallelism, is fhe face where the transmission is bolted to parralell to the crankshaft.
Lots of fun on your back in the garage
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Redondo Beach, California
Have I been missing something? I can't remember someone being concerned about aligning a stock cast aluminum bellhousing to crankshaft (making sure that the bellhousing opening for the transmission input shaft is exactly centered in the bellhousing opening for the input shaft.) But it's very common to read about the concern for aligning a scattershield. It appears that the scattershields are inherently more inaccurately manufactured. I remember that I had to align my Lakewood steel scattershield in the early 1970's. I bought another Lakewood in 2003 and I was surprised that they still required aligning the shield. My thought is that after 30 years they would have started making them with the same accuracy that stock bellhousings apparently have.
Former Vendor
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14
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From: Encinitas CA
Dave-
McLeod manufcatures their belllhousings to wthin .005". which is within the allowable toerances for a TKO transmission. As lomg as your motor has not been line bored, the McLeod unit should be a direct bolt-in that does not require dial indicating. It seems to be preet ymuch accepated that the McLeod units are the most accurately made scattershields.
Lakewoods require dial indicationg.
Jeff Mortenson
McLeod manufcatures their belllhousings to wthin .005". which is within the allowable toerances for a TKO transmission. As lomg as your motor has not been line bored, the McLeod unit should be a direct bolt-in that does not require dial indicating. It seems to be preet ymuch accepated that the McLeod units are the most accurately made scattershields.
Lakewoods require dial indicationg.
Jeff Mortenson
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From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
When you buy a kit ( TKO 5 speed ) from Keisler they want you to send them these measurements on stock or non stock bellhousing for warranty purposes, also it if you are bolting on a brand new $2000 tranny it is nice to know these measurements are within tolerance
Race Director
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by MotorHead
YOu need a dial indicator with a magentic base, you attach it to the crankshaft/flywheel and turn the motor over.
There are two measurement to be made, the first is cocentricity where you check runout of the opening itself or in other words is the opening centered around the center of the crankshaft.
THe second is parallelism, is fhe face where the transmission is bolted to parralell to the crankshaft.
Lots of fun on your back in the garage
There are two measurement to be made, the first is cocentricity where you check runout of the opening itself or in other words is the opening centered around the center of the crankshaft.
THe second is parallelism, is fhe face where the transmission is bolted to parralell to the crankshaft.
Lots of fun on your back in the garage
You don't need a granite surface plate. Listen to motorhead. He has it right. YOu need a dial indicatork, a magnetic base and a few clamps and rods that go with the base. Your flywheel is your granite base. Everything is measured by turning over the motor. 
Race Director
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From: Forked River NJ
You do if you want to see if the mounting plate of the trans is parallel to the face of the block. That I think was the original question. I don't think that is needed. Most should be in tolerance for that. I did use a magnetic base and indicater on mine to check the runout.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,668
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From: St. Charles Mo
CI 5 & 8 Veteran
Originally Posted by jmort
Dave-
McLeod manufcatures their belllhousings to wthin .005". which is within the allowable toerances for a TKO transmission. As lomg as your motor has not been line bored, the McLeod unit should be a direct bolt-in that does not require dial indicating. It seems to be preet ymuch accepated that the McLeod units are the most accurately made scattershields.
Lakewoods require dial indicationg.
Jeff Mortenson
McLeod manufcatures their belllhousings to wthin .005". which is within the allowable toerances for a TKO transmission. As lomg as your motor has not been line bored, the McLeod unit should be a direct bolt-in that does not require dial indicating. It seems to be preet ymuch accepated that the McLeod units are the most accurately made scattershields.
Lakewoods require dial indicationg.
Jeff Mortenson
I was a little concerned that with the motor plate, the tolerence variation/ build up would be a risk. Maybe I just lucked out but the bellhousing dialed in nicely. no modification needed. I did pay special attention to bellhousing to engine bolt torques. In order to achieve the exact transmission location that a stock aluminum bellhousing dimensions provided, I needed to use the motor plate.Bullshark
Race Director
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From: Foxfield CO 1970 Convertible
Here's my check for runout. The gauge holder is strongly magnetic and stuck to the pressure plate. I measured it in 4 places around the hole. You'd put the finger on the flat part for checking parallelism (I also removed the paint).
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: San diego ca
Originally Posted by Cali,68,L-79
It's the stock original GM bellhousing. And I'm buying Jeff's GM Classic 5-speed unit not the Keisler.
the main reason is that i have to believe that if it was out of tolerance my original 4 speed wouldnt have lasted 25 years and show no real wear ofter that time.
Race Director
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From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Many of us have had the motor rebuilt, or replaced and if either case these measurements should be checked, even with the stock bellhousing is used.
It is also a good check to use if everything is stock and the bellhousing has been removed and replaced, a small burr, nick, excess paint and or debris on the face can put it out of tolerance.
It is also a good check to use if everything is stock and the bellhousing has been removed and replaced, a small burr, nick, excess paint and or debris on the face can put it out of tolerance.