Can you install a oxygen sensor without welding??
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Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Lakeland, FL
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St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Can you install a oxygen sensor without welding??
I wonder if it's possible to install a oxygen sensor just by drilling a hole into a header pipe or is it necessary to weld a nut into the header pipe to screw in the oxygen sensor?
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
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From: Orange Park Florida
You really need the nut/bung, the header pipe has insufficient thickness to hold a sensor, or anything else threads will allmost immediately strip and it will blow outta there....
GENE
GENE
Thread Starter
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From: Lakeland, FL
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St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Originally Posted by 69ttop502
Olivier, with the LM1 kit you can buy an adapter to clip the sensor on your tailpipe or sidetube. Obviously it is not permanent but it would do the trick.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...=KeywordSearch
This gauge should fit my gauge bezel.. I want the A/F gauge to be permanently installed...
Looks like I gonna have to find a wilder to weld a nut into a header pipe.. Planning on installing the oxygen sensor on a primary pipe (preferably the pipe of the leanest cylinder). The header pipes are very long, causing a delay in the reading... Therefore, I want the sensor closer to the engine..
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,668
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From: Eastern US XX
Originally Posted by GrandSportC3
I wonder if it's possible to install a oxygen sensor just by drilling a hole into a header pipe or is it necessary to weld a nut into the header pipe to screw in the oxygen sensor?
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,711
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From: San Antonio TX
Don't use a nut. Get one of these.
A couple of points about both a permanent and temporary use of the LM-1:
The O2 sensor reads almost instantaneously no matter where the bung is installed but the closer to the header collector or exhaust manifold junction, the better. Installing the bung on one primary pipe means you intend to use it to measure only that one cylinder. I don't know why you'd do that. Optimally, you'd want a sensor in each engine bank and two gauges but nearly all of us settle for one sensor and the probability that what's happening on one bank is probably reflective of the other. Maybe, maybe not. A sensor bung on each bank and just moving the sensor will prove that right or wrong. You're lowering the standard that whatever is happening in one cylinder is happening in all the others.
My experience with the tailpipe fitting for temporary use is that it's not all that good. It works fine for single exhaust systems but for dual exhaust, there's too much pulsing at the end of the pipe to get any useful reading -particularly at idle. And the more cam you got, the worse it is.
Anyone considering a wideband sensor should read through Innovate's site. There is an astounding amount of technical information on their site as well as a user's forum. There's far more to O2 sensors, how they work, what they really measure, and what they tell you. If you buy a system without understanding it technically, you'll never get very much out of it.
Lastly, an LM-1 (or any other similar system) is just a tool. The traditional methods of tuning and testing still need to be followed. Just setting your engine up to hit a particular A/F ratio target and calling it good is not going to get you in the zone.
A couple of points about both a permanent and temporary use of the LM-1:
The O2 sensor reads almost instantaneously no matter where the bung is installed but the closer to the header collector or exhaust manifold junction, the better. Installing the bung on one primary pipe means you intend to use it to measure only that one cylinder. I don't know why you'd do that. Optimally, you'd want a sensor in each engine bank and two gauges but nearly all of us settle for one sensor and the probability that what's happening on one bank is probably reflective of the other. Maybe, maybe not. A sensor bung on each bank and just moving the sensor will prove that right or wrong. You're lowering the standard that whatever is happening in one cylinder is happening in all the others.
My experience with the tailpipe fitting for temporary use is that it's not all that good. It works fine for single exhaust systems but for dual exhaust, there's too much pulsing at the end of the pipe to get any useful reading -particularly at idle. And the more cam you got, the worse it is.
Anyone considering a wideband sensor should read through Innovate's site. There is an astounding amount of technical information on their site as well as a user's forum. There's far more to O2 sensors, how they work, what they really measure, and what they tell you. If you buy a system without understanding it technically, you'll never get very much out of it.
Lastly, an LM-1 (or any other similar system) is just a tool. The traditional methods of tuning and testing still need to be followed. Just setting your engine up to hit a particular A/F ratio target and calling it good is not going to get you in the zone.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Originally Posted by gerry72
Don't use a nut. Get one of these.
A couple of points about both a permanent and temporary use of the LM-1:
The O2 sensor reads almost instantaneously no matter where the bung is installed but the closer to the header collector or exhaust manifold junction, the better. Installing the bung on one primary pipe means you intend to use it to measure only that one cylinder. I don't know why you'd do that. Optimally, you'd want a sensor in each engine bank and two gauges but nearly all of us settle for one sensor and the probability that what's happening on one bank is probably reflective of the other. Maybe, maybe not. A sensor bung on each bank and just moving the sensor will prove that right or wrong. You're lowering the standard that whatever is happening in one cylinder is happening in all the others.
My experience with the tailpipe fitting for temporary use is that it's not all that good. It works fine for single exhaust systems but for dual exhaust, there's too much pulsing at the end of the pipe to get any useful reading -particularly at idle. And the more cam you got, the worse it is.
Anyone considering a wideband sensor should read through Innovate's site. There is an astounding amount of technical information on their site as well as a user's forum. There's far more to O2 sensors, how they work, what they really measure, and what they tell you. If you buy a system without understanding it technically, you'll never get very much out of it.
Lastly, an LM-1 (or any other similar system) is just a tool. The traditional methods of tuning and testing still need to be followed. Just setting your engine up to hit a particular A/F ratio target and calling it good is not going to get you in the zone.
The O2 sensor reads almost instantaneously no matter where the bung is installed but the closer to the header collector or exhaust manifold junction, the better. Installing the bung on one primary pipe means you intend to use it to measure only that one cylinder. I don't know why you'd do that. Optimally, you'd want a sensor in each engine bank and two gauges but nearly all of us settle for one sensor and the probability that what's happening on one bank is probably reflective of the other. Maybe, maybe not. A sensor bung on each bank and just moving the sensor will prove that right or wrong. You're lowering the standard that whatever is happening in one cylinder is happening in all the others.
My experience with the tailpipe fitting for temporary use is that it's not all that good. It works fine for single exhaust systems but for dual exhaust, there's too much pulsing at the end of the pipe to get any useful reading -particularly at idle. And the more cam you got, the worse it is.
Anyone considering a wideband sensor should read through Innovate's site. There is an astounding amount of technical information on their site as well as a user's forum. There's far more to O2 sensors, how they work, what they really measure, and what they tell you. If you buy a system without understanding it technically, you'll never get very much out of it.
Lastly, an LM-1 (or any other similar system) is just a tool. The traditional methods of tuning and testing still need to be followed. Just setting your engine up to hit a particular A/F ratio target and calling it good is not going to get you in the zone.
That's 13.5 - 14:1 during a drag strip pass!!
Last edited by GrandSportC3; Sep 28, 2005 at 09:16 AM.
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Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 10
From: Big Pine Key FL
Why not look to the Aircraft Industry either the TSO'd stuff or the home builders. They have 8 cyl EGT probes that will give you a real good feel about the state of combustion in your cylinders. EGT is a direct measure, A/F ratio is an indirect measure if your looking to keep from melting a piston. Better yet use both.
A probe for each cylinder, most will find the hottest cylinder and flag it automatically Some come with Data loggers to dump to your PC
Just a thought
A probe for each cylinder, most will find the hottest cylinder and flag it automatically Some come with Data loggers to dump to your PC
Just a thought
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Originally Posted by gerry72
Don't know how I did that but go to Summit's site and type in Innovate Bung in their search engine.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
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From: Lakeland, FL
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St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Originally Posted by 84rzv500r
Why not look to the Aircraft Industry either the TSO'd stuff or the home builders. They have 8 cyl EGT probes that will give you a real good feel about the state of combustion in your cylinders. EGT is a direct measure, A/F ratio is an indirect measure if your looking to keep from melting a piston. Better yet use both.
A probe for each cylinder, most will find the hottest cylinder and flag it automatically Some come with Data loggers to dump to your PC
Just a thought
A probe for each cylinder, most will find the hottest cylinder and flag it automatically Some come with Data loggers to dump to your PC
Just a thought
#3 is my leanest cylinder and that's where I'm going to install the oxygen sensor.. I'm not gonna drill all 8 pipes
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: Geneva Ohio
That AEM wideband controller is the very same that we are using. It works great!
We have it mounted in the header collector not too far down. We have a bung welded on both sides so we can switch the sensor to either side, and plug the other.
The gauge is very easy to install and easy to read. It has turned out to being a valuable tuning instrument for us. Especially when tuning the nitrous system.
By the way, The optimum A/F ratio for making power is 12.5:1. You will try to tune some where between 12.3 and 12.8 for best performance. The gauge reading will vary some down the Quarter mile. Tuning at 13.5 to 14:1 is only for cruising and conserving gas mileage, not for drag racing.
We have it mounted in the header collector not too far down. We have a bung welded on both sides so we can switch the sensor to either side, and plug the other.
The gauge is very easy to install and easy to read. It has turned out to being a valuable tuning instrument for us. Especially when tuning the nitrous system.
By the way, The optimum A/F ratio for making power is 12.5:1. You will try to tune some where between 12.3 and 12.8 for best performance. The gauge reading will vary some down the Quarter mile. Tuning at 13.5 to 14:1 is only for cruising and conserving gas mileage, not for drag racing.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Originally Posted by red79vette454
That AEM wideband controller is the very same that we are using. It works great!
We have it mounted in the header collector not too far down. We have a bung welded on both sides so we can switch the sensor to either side, and plug the other.
The gauge is very easy to install and easy to read. It has turned out to being a valuable tuning instrument for us. Especially when tuning the nitrous system.
By the way, The optimum A/F ratio for making power is 12.5:1. You will try to tune some where between 12.3 and 12.8 for best performance. The gauge reading will vary some down the Quarter mile. Tuning at 13.5 to 14:1 is only for cruising and conserving gas mileage, not for drag racing.
We have it mounted in the header collector not too far down. We have a bung welded on both sides so we can switch the sensor to either side, and plug the other.
The gauge is very easy to install and easy to read. It has turned out to being a valuable tuning instrument for us. Especially when tuning the nitrous system.
By the way, The optimum A/F ratio for making power is 12.5:1. You will try to tune some where between 12.3 and 12.8 for best performance. The gauge reading will vary some down the Quarter mile. Tuning at 13.5 to 14:1 is only for cruising and conserving gas mileage, not for drag racing.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by 84rzv500r
Why not look to the Aircraft Industry either the TSO'd stuff or the home builders. They have 8 cyl EGT probes that will give you a real good feel about the state of combustion in your cylinders. EGT is a direct measure, A/F ratio is an indirect measure if your looking to keep from melting a piston. Better yet use both.
A probe for each cylinder, most will find the hottest cylinder and flag it automatically Some come with Data loggers to dump to your PC
Just a thought
A probe for each cylinder, most will find the hottest cylinder and flag it automatically Some come with Data loggers to dump to your PC
Just a thought
Exactly what I'm looking for...you should know by now you can't post info like that without a link or a pic
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,608
Likes: 3
From: Canberra AUSTRALIA
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Originally Posted by 69ttop502
Olivier, with the LM1 kit you can buy an adapter to clip the sensor on your tailpipe or sidetube. Obviously it is not permanent but it would do the trick.
You also you need to loctite the threads as it will vibrate loose and fall off. Mine fell off and dragged behind the car on my second tryout.
When the car is stationairy or deaccelerating the air flow is all screwed up and it doesn't get good exhaust flow across the O2 sensor. I installed the bungs.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 10
From: Big Pine Key FL
Originally Posted by Twin_Turbo
Exactly what I'm looking for...you should know by now you can't post info like that without a link or a pic
I forgot to mention TIT for you
http://www.jpinstruments.com/
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/cgi-bin...nicsIntl1.html
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,123
Likes: 13
From: Hollywood, Florida
Originally Posted by Star79
Hey all that work you do on your car and you don't do your own welding?? Pick up a half decent wirefeed, practice on some scrap metal a bit and you're good to go!
