Pulling The Motor, Don't Know What Else To Do
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,162
Likes: 2
From: Beaverton, OR
At this point, I'd probably pull the timing cover and have a look since it seems you've done nearly everything else. The scrraaaank you describe may have been something in there. Also, have you verified that the balancer TDC is actually TDC? The balancer may have slipped a whole lot . . . Normally a srrrrank noise while trying to turn the engine over is due to the starter gears not fully engaging the flywheel/flexplate ring. . .
-dath
-dath
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 2
From: Ft.Worth Texas
You need to find tdc reguardless of what the timing mark shows. Turn ingnition switch on. Remove valve cover and watch valve action of #1 and feel what #1 piston is doing. When intake is opening piston should be going down sucking in fuel. Shortly before it starts back up both intake and exhaust should be closed. Have a friend hold on to plug wire and before piston reaches top your friend should let out a yelp and might even hit you. At that point look at crank pulley and it should be approaching the mark. If it isn't either your cam/crank relationship is out or your dist./cam relation is out, or both. If you can gather up eight friends each one can hold their own plug wire. Make sure they are touching something grounded to the motor too. Which ever one hollers, trace the wire and determine which plug it is going to then you can cipher by removing the dist cap what may be wrong there and maybe it's only a plug wire distribution problem.
However I still think that dist gear needs a look at. It may have been put on 180* out or sheared the pin.
Good luck, we's ah pullin fer ya.
However I still think that dist gear needs a look at. It may have been put on 180* out or sheared the pin.
Good luck, we's ah pullin fer ya.
Last edited by David Ey; Oct 3, 2005 at 09:23 PM.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
From: Oita, Japan
Originally Posted by nastee383
I've seen some posts that say it's possible for a chain to jump a couple of teeth. Maybe thats what happened when I heard that loud "SCRRRRANK" when cranking one time.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 2
From: Ft.Worth Texas
Originally Posted by nastee383
When I pull the motor the timing cover is one of the first things thats coming off. Now remember it was running just fine before. No points its an HEI.
Also, have a good look at that dist cap and rotor and center carbon in cap. I know they be new but they can still brake.
Last edited by David Ey; Oct 3, 2005 at 09:01 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 141
Likes: 1
loud noise, wont run;
timing does not respond to changes in distributor position;
engine turn over ease does not change with distributor position;
appears there is no relationship inside the engine between valve movment and the distributor;
the link between the two is the cam;
something happened with the cam or timing chain, thats where my money is. i think you will probably have to end up at least pulling the cam. during the process of pulling the cam, you will have opportunity to verifying timeing chain and other components, and you will find your problem.
timing does not respond to changes in distributor position;
engine turn over ease does not change with distributor position;
appears there is no relationship inside the engine between valve movment and the distributor;
the link between the two is the cam;
something happened with the cam or timing chain, thats where my money is. i think you will probably have to end up at least pulling the cam. during the process of pulling the cam, you will have opportunity to verifying timeing chain and other components, and you will find your problem.
Last edited by seaboltm; Oct 3, 2005 at 08:59 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 1
From: Ft. Walton Beach, Fl USA
Originally Posted by ltlevil
That's what I was getting at in the earlier post. A couple of other things to look at-Did you change any wiring when hooking up the Accel unit? If so make sure you have 12 volts going into the distributor while turning the engine over. Another thing to look at is the control module in the distributor. If this is suspect it is best to replace the pick up and the module at the same time. I would also see if the oil pump shaft can turn freely with the distrib removed. I have seen more than once where the oil pump froze up and either broke the cam, sheared the distrib pin or broke the ger on either the cam or distrib. These are just some more things to look at, it's hard to diagnose things like this from cyberspace, but I would be hard pressed to pull the motor until I found out the problem.
I've had the distributor out and the gear is fine. I had to adjust the oil pump shaft to position the distributor and it turned normally. I put the distributor from my Vette in it and it made no difference.
Believe me, pulling the motor is a last resort. Everything is a tight fit on this vehicle.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
From: ca
Nasty,
Did you check the ignition module in the HEI? I also have the Accell 300+ ignition system and could not get my car to start. I checked everyting a few times, spark, fuel, try with accell w/o accell before I eventually replaced the module and sure enough, back to life.
Not sure you already addressed it but just thought it might be worth looking into.
Did you check the ignition module in the HEI? I also have the Accell 300+ ignition system and could not get my car to start. I checked everyting a few times, spark, fuel, try with accell w/o accell before I eventually replaced the module and sure enough, back to life.
Not sure you already addressed it but just thought it might be worth looking into.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 1
From: Ft. Walton Beach, Fl USA
Originally Posted by seaboltm
loud noise, wont run;
timing does not respond to changes in distributor position;
engine turn over ease does not change with distributor position;
appears there is no relationship inside the engine between valve movment and the distributor;
the link between the two is the cam;
something happened with the cam or timing chain, thats where my money is. i think you will probably have to end up at least pulling the cam. during the process of pulling the cam, you will have opportunity to verifying timeing chain and other components, and you will find your problem.
timing does not respond to changes in distributor position;
engine turn over ease does not change with distributor position;
appears there is no relationship inside the engine between valve movment and the distributor;
the link between the two is the cam;
something happened with the cam or timing chain, thats where my money is. i think you will probably have to end up at least pulling the cam. during the process of pulling the cam, you will have opportunity to verifying timeing chain and other components, and you will find your problem.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 2
From: Ft.Worth Texas
When you turn engine over and hold hand over carb do you feel a suction or both a suction and a pressure? With all spark plugs in, of course 
Last edited by David Ey; Oct 3, 2005 at 10:19 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
If you'd be a little bit closer, I'd love to take a look at that engine..
Here's what I'd do:
1) get a HEI distributor with the internal coil from the junkyard or from a friend and try to get the car running with the HEI.
2) set the idle very high and basline the idle mixture (1.5 turns left after they are completely in (on the idle mixture screws))
3) if that doesn't work, I'd check the timing chain.
Here's what I'd do:
1) get a HEI distributor with the internal coil from the junkyard or from a friend and try to get the car running with the HEI.
2) set the idle very high and basline the idle mixture (1.5 turns left after they are completely in (on the idle mixture screws))
3) if that doesn't work, I'd check the timing chain.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 847
Likes: 0
From: Des Allemands LA
Originally Posted by nastee383
I've done alot of wiring on this vehicle. It is a V8 conversion. The motor was running before, very well. The ACCEL unit was wired up then and no changes have been made. Its fairly simple to wire it up anyway. Everything I had wired/rewired was working, which actually surprised me. I put all new gauges, fuel system, electric fan, line lock, aux fuse block, 2 stage N20, N2O purge, etc., etc.
I've had the distributor out and the gear is fine. I had to adjust the oil pump shaft to position the distributor and it turned normally. I put the distributor from my Vette in it and it made no difference.
Believe me, pulling the motor is a last resort. Everything is a tight fit on this vehicle.
I've had the distributor out and the gear is fine. I had to adjust the oil pump shaft to position the distributor and it turned normally. I put the distributor from my Vette in it and it made no difference.
Believe me, pulling the motor is a last resort. Everything is a tight fit on this vehicle.
ltlevil
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 16,978
Likes: 7
From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
No need to pull the motor, just yet...as everyone has mentioned, pull the distributor and look at the gear, pull the timing cover....if the chain is still on, line up the dots. This way you're assured you're on TDC.
The problem is either in valve timing or ignition. Forget that it ran yesterday, today is what you have to focus on.
The problem is either in valve timing or ignition. Forget that it ran yesterday, today is what you have to focus on.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 1
From: Ft. Walton Beach, Fl USA
Originally Posted by ferndog4
Nasty,
Did you check the ignition module in the HEI? I also have the Accell 300+ ignition system and could not get my car to start. I checked everyting a few times, spark, fuel, try with accell w/o accell before I eventually replaced the module and sure enough, back to life.
Not sure you already addressed it but just thought it might be worth looking into.
Did you check the ignition module in the HEI? I also have the Accell 300+ ignition system and could not get my car to start. I checked everyting a few times, spark, fuel, try with accell w/o accell before I eventually replaced the module and sure enough, back to life.
Not sure you already addressed it but just thought it might be worth looking into.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 1
From: Ft. Walton Beach, Fl USA
Originally Posted by David Ey
When you turn engine over and hold hand over carb do you feel a suction or both a suction and a pressure? With all spark plugs in, of course
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 1
From: Ft. Walton Beach, Fl USA
Originally Posted by GrandSportC3
Hmmm.. have you thought about pulling off the timing chain cover to see if there's anything wrong with it?