My Auto to T5 Conversion
10-03-2005, 10:40 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
My Auto to T5 Conversion
There seems to be a lot of interest these days around T5 swaps so I thought that I would post my swap which is currently in progress. In my case I am converting my 1978 from Auto to a Ford T5. I am VERY fortunate to have Norval's personal guidance and the benefit of his very well equipped shop and skills. This is basically a Norval project but with a student(me!). However I do not see any reason why anyone could not do this in their garage with perhaps a little outside help to fabricate some adapter plates.
Last edited by Retro78; 10-03-2005 at 11:53 PM.
10-03-2005, 10:41 PM
#2
Drifting
Thread Starter
Parts List
-Transmission. I selected a T5 1994/95 model. This version has an extra long input shaft that provides additional benefits. (1) It places the shifter 5/8" further back than a typical T5 for a better original shifter position. (2)it is typically less expensive since the stang crowd cannot simply bolt this long version into earlier mustangs. (3)factory steel bearing retainer (4) extra input length means that two adapter plates are needed rather than one which is actually easier to work with. More on that later. The attached web site documents the different T5 versions. Mine happens to be #246 on the list. T5site
-Shifter....I went for a stock mustang shifter base since it was cheap and will easily allow me to install a spacer between the bolt-on handle and stub. The shifter handle needs to be moved about 1.5" closer to the driver for the stock location. I will be bolting a 78-82 corvette manual shifter handle onto the T5 shifter stub with a spacer to move it towards the driver about 1.5". The Corvette 78-82 version of the handle is a bolt-on design and reproductions are only about $90 from the major suppliers.
-Clutch. I am using a hydraulic setup from a 85 chev truck, You can purchase the 1985 master, slave and flex hose from any local parts store. Norval uses brake lines with adapter fittings but I could not find any adapters that fit.
-Bellhousing. I am using a standard stock 11" unit with a lakewood aftermarket fork(a stock fork will also work if it is the push linkage style rather than the bolt-on linkage style. My bellhousing is not the angled camaro version with a bolt on slave therefore I will make a simple bracket to bolt my slave to the bellhousing,
-Flywheel...I am using a stock resurfaced 11" unit.
-Clutch pedal assembly. I bought the assembly used from a forum member. I just put a 'wanted to buy' notice on the forum parts section and three people responded. Also watch ebay.
-Ford T5 rear yoke. The T5 stock #1310 yoke mates perfectly with my 1978 U joint...no mods needed at all except to have the shaft shortened(in my case about 3").
-Centerforce II pressure plate for an 11" chev clutch. I am using a standard 10 spline ford clutch plate..
-Centerforce thrust bearing for ford T5
-Spedo Ford-GM adapter (not purchased yet)
-Pilot bearing(conversion style for a Chev with a Ford Trans from Coleman)
-Coleman plastic hydraulic reservoir
-Transmission. I selected a T5 1994/95 model. This version has an extra long input shaft that provides additional benefits. (1) It places the shifter 5/8" further back than a typical T5 for a better original shifter position. (2)it is typically less expensive since the stang crowd cannot simply bolt this long version into earlier mustangs. (3)factory steel bearing retainer (4) extra input length means that two adapter plates are needed rather than one which is actually easier to work with. More on that later. The attached web site documents the different T5 versions. Mine happens to be #246 on the list. T5site
-Shifter....I went for a stock mustang shifter base since it was cheap and will easily allow me to install a spacer between the bolt-on handle and stub. The shifter handle needs to be moved about 1.5" closer to the driver for the stock location. I will be bolting a 78-82 corvette manual shifter handle onto the T5 shifter stub with a spacer to move it towards the driver about 1.5". The Corvette 78-82 version of the handle is a bolt-on design and reproductions are only about $90 from the major suppliers.
-Clutch. I am using a hydraulic setup from a 85 chev truck, You can purchase the 1985 master, slave and flex hose from any local parts store. Norval uses brake lines with adapter fittings but I could not find any adapters that fit.
-Bellhousing. I am using a standard stock 11" unit with a lakewood aftermarket fork(a stock fork will also work if it is the push linkage style rather than the bolt-on linkage style. My bellhousing is not the angled camaro version with a bolt on slave therefore I will make a simple bracket to bolt my slave to the bellhousing,
-Flywheel...I am using a stock resurfaced 11" unit.
-Clutch pedal assembly. I bought the assembly used from a forum member. I just put a 'wanted to buy' notice on the forum parts section and three people responded. Also watch ebay.
-Ford T5 rear yoke. The T5 stock #1310 yoke mates perfectly with my 1978 U joint...no mods needed at all except to have the shaft shortened(in my case about 3").
-Centerforce II pressure plate for an 11" chev clutch. I am using a standard 10 spline ford clutch plate..
-Centerforce thrust bearing for ford T5
-Spedo Ford-GM adapter (not purchased yet)
-Pilot bearing(conversion style for a Chev with a Ford Trans from Coleman)
-Coleman plastic hydraulic reservoir
Last edited by Retro78; 10-03-2005 at 11:23 PM.
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Jaxley (12-17-2018)
10-03-2005, 10:49 PM
#3
Drifting
Thread Starter
Pedal Swap
------------
I began the conversion by doing the hardest part first which is swapping the pedals. However by taking Norval's advise of removing the seat and steering column it was not that bad. I was very surprised at how fast and easy the column comes out. Just five bolts and a few electrical conectors(perhaps 30mins work total). I also unbolted the master brake cylinder and supported it with wire. A total of 10 bolts fastens the pedal assembly in place...four of them are the same ones for the power brake booster(which must also be removed). The power booster sticks through the firewall into the passenger compartment about 2 inches and gets in the way of removing the pedal assembly so it must be removed. Six of the bolts are easy but the four that also hold the power booster can be a struggle(use a long extension with a swivel). It takes a lot of wiggling to get the pedals out...(just take your time and you will get it).
My new clutch pedal assembly was apparently from a manual brake car since the brake linkage had to be moved from one mounting hole to another on the brake pedal. This will be obvious when you see it, just compare the mounting holes from your old pedals. There is also a longer brake switch bracket for a manual vrs a power brake car. I just moved the bracket over from my old pedal assembly. All of this will be obvious and very easy to deal with when you see it,...just compare your old pedals to new before you install the assembly into the car.
Before you re-install the power brake booster install the hydraulic clutch cylinder. It is much easier to work in there with the booster out. The 1985 Chev truck hydraulic master cylinder bolts right in at the perfect angle(as Norval previously posted). Some vette's have a cover plate on the firewall that you just remove to reveal pre-drilled holes that fit the 85 perfect.. Mine did not have the plate or holes, however the center hole was partially pre-drilled in the metal firewall liner on the passenger side of the firewall. I just drilled the hole all the way through and then installed the master to locate and drill the two smaller bolt holes. The 85 master is perfectly positioned for your clutch pedal. But you will need todo some fabrication since the linkage on the 85 master is too long. Norval simply cut about 1.5" from the middle of the rod and then threaded it. He then used a threaded sleeve so that the linkage is adjustable. I also made a small bushing since the clutch pedal linkage stud is a smaller diameter to mate with the 85 linkage. I just rounded off a nut and drilled it out to make the bushing. Very easy. Pic of master with shortened and adjustable shaft(by Norval)
I took this opportunity to also install a new brake power booster since mine was original. Make sure you get that brake linkage clip installed properly. A friend lost his brakes when the clip and stud fell out.
It took me about six evenings for the complete clutch pedal swap including mounting the master cylinder, reservoir and cleaning/painting things, I took my time and enjoyed it. I was expecting a frustrating job but did not mind it at all with the column out of the way.
Last Saturday after I swapped the pedals I moved the 78 into Norval shop where the TH350, shifter and cooler lines were removed.
------------
I began the conversion by doing the hardest part first which is swapping the pedals. However by taking Norval's advise of removing the seat and steering column it was not that bad. I was very surprised at how fast and easy the column comes out. Just five bolts and a few electrical conectors(perhaps 30mins work total). I also unbolted the master brake cylinder and supported it with wire. A total of 10 bolts fastens the pedal assembly in place...four of them are the same ones for the power brake booster(which must also be removed). The power booster sticks through the firewall into the passenger compartment about 2 inches and gets in the way of removing the pedal assembly so it must be removed. Six of the bolts are easy but the four that also hold the power booster can be a struggle(use a long extension with a swivel). It takes a lot of wiggling to get the pedals out...(just take your time and you will get it).
My new clutch pedal assembly was apparently from a manual brake car since the brake linkage had to be moved from one mounting hole to another on the brake pedal. This will be obvious when you see it, just compare the mounting holes from your old pedals. There is also a longer brake switch bracket for a manual vrs a power brake car. I just moved the bracket over from my old pedal assembly. All of this will be obvious and very easy to deal with when you see it,...just compare your old pedals to new before you install the assembly into the car.
Before you re-install the power brake booster install the hydraulic clutch cylinder. It is much easier to work in there with the booster out. The 1985 Chev truck hydraulic master cylinder bolts right in at the perfect angle(as Norval previously posted). Some vette's have a cover plate on the firewall that you just remove to reveal pre-drilled holes that fit the 85 perfect.. Mine did not have the plate or holes, however the center hole was partially pre-drilled in the metal firewall liner on the passenger side of the firewall. I just drilled the hole all the way through and then installed the master to locate and drill the two smaller bolt holes. The 85 master is perfectly positioned for your clutch pedal. But you will need todo some fabrication since the linkage on the 85 master is too long. Norval simply cut about 1.5" from the middle of the rod and then threaded it. He then used a threaded sleeve so that the linkage is adjustable. I also made a small bushing since the clutch pedal linkage stud is a smaller diameter to mate with the 85 linkage. I just rounded off a nut and drilled it out to make the bushing. Very easy. Pic of master with shortened and adjustable shaft(by Norval)
I took this opportunity to also install a new brake power booster since mine was original. Make sure you get that brake linkage clip installed properly. A friend lost his brakes when the clip and stud fell out.
It took me about six evenings for the complete clutch pedal swap including mounting the master cylinder, reservoir and cleaning/painting things, I took my time and enjoyed it. I was expecting a frustrating job but did not mind it at all with the column out of the way.
Last Saturday after I swapped the pedals I moved the 78 into Norval shop where the TH350, shifter and cooler lines were removed.
Last edited by Retro78; 10-03-2005 at 11:24 PM.
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T Keith Alvey (09-04-2020)
10-03-2005, 10:54 PM
#4
Drifting
Thread Starter
Adapter Plates
A typical Ford T5 has a 1/2" longer input shaft and a different bolt pattern than your Chev. As posted in other threads a simple 1/2" adapter plate solves both problems. However in my case with the extra long 94/95 input shaft we are using two plates bolted together(1/2 & 5/8). More on this later as Norval and I are just finishing up the plates now. In the mean time attached are a few pics of work in progress. These plates are not completed, on Tuesday they will be shaped and smoothed down to look pretty. Also note that Norval has used studs for the trans attachment. Norval encourages the use of studs whenever possible on pieces like this. It was so much easier test fitting the trans onto these studs rather than fighting to hold it up while starting bolts. It makes the job so much easier especially when there will be a few test fittings of the trans.
A typical Ford T5 has a 1/2" longer input shaft and a different bolt pattern than your Chev. As posted in other threads a simple 1/2" adapter plate solves both problems. However in my case with the extra long 94/95 input shaft we are using two plates bolted together(1/2 & 5/8). More on this later as Norval and I are just finishing up the plates now. In the mean time attached are a few pics of work in progress. These plates are not completed, on Tuesday they will be shaped and smoothed down to look pretty. Also note that Norval has used studs for the trans attachment. Norval encourages the use of studs whenever possible on pieces like this. It was so much easier test fitting the trans onto these studs rather than fighting to hold it up while starting bolts. It makes the job so much easier especially when there will be a few test fittings of the trans.
Last edited by Retro78; 10-03-2005 at 11:07 PM.
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T Keith Alvey (09-04-2020)
10-04-2005, 06:12 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
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Doug,
the information and pictures look great. i printed them for a book I am doing but the right side of the pictures get cut off. I was wondering if you could e-mail the pictures to me. bwatkins@stowerscat.com. What type countersunk bolts did you use and what size? I haven't quite got there yet. I wasn't in a hurry with this project until I saw all the work you have done and progress you have made. Keep the posts coming!
Bernie
the information and pictures look great. i printed them for a book I am doing but the right side of the pictures get cut off. I was wondering if you could e-mail the pictures to me. bwatkins@stowerscat.com. What type countersunk bolts did you use and what size? I haven't quite got there yet. I wasn't in a hurry with this project until I saw all the work you have done and progress you have made. Keep the posts coming!
Bernie
10-04-2005, 09:14 AM
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Last night we bolted the transmission in for the first time to check where to cut the floor. Sure was easy lifting the T5 compared to lowering the 350. With the studs it was a simple matter to bench bress the transmission onto the studs and slide it home.
You could actually then take the tail stock and lift the motor and transmission up against the floor. We screwed the Jack under the oil pan up to hold it against the floor and then scribed the floor for cutting to allow the tower to pass through the floor.
With a zip cut, a 4 1/2 inch round abrassive wheel on a grinder it takes only a few minutes to cut out the floor.
The adapter is actually functional already. We just traced out the transmission with a black felt marker, removed the 2 adapters and using the band saw cut out any unused material to make the adapter look good.
Tonight I will use the mill and quickly machine all cut edges for appearance and add a few angles to make it look trick. It really serves no purpose other then making it look good.
Tonight after finishing the adapter and cutting the floor we will install the transmission again and maybe install the crossmember and fabricate a little shelf out front for the transmission mount. Takes only a few minutes to weld it into place.
This is the adapter installed and other then looks it would function fine.
Doug took the drive shaft in and we are making it 27 inches outside of universal to outside of universal. Now wer are 31 inches so it is a simple cut/shorten/rebalance.
I have done them in the shop myself but I can not balance.
You could actually then take the tail stock and lift the motor and transmission up against the floor. We screwed the Jack under the oil pan up to hold it against the floor and then scribed the floor for cutting to allow the tower to pass through the floor.
With a zip cut, a 4 1/2 inch round abrassive wheel on a grinder it takes only a few minutes to cut out the floor.
The adapter is actually functional already. We just traced out the transmission with a black felt marker, removed the 2 adapters and using the band saw cut out any unused material to make the adapter look good.
Tonight I will use the mill and quickly machine all cut edges for appearance and add a few angles to make it look trick. It really serves no purpose other then making it look good.
Tonight after finishing the adapter and cutting the floor we will install the transmission again and maybe install the crossmember and fabricate a little shelf out front for the transmission mount. Takes only a few minutes to weld it into place.
This is the adapter installed and other then looks it would function fine.
Doug took the drive shaft in and we are making it 27 inches outside of universal to outside of universal. Now wer are 31 inches so it is a simple cut/shorten/rebalance.
I have done them in the shop myself but I can not balance.
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T Keith Alvey (09-04-2020)
10-04-2005, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BerniesVette
Norval,
What type counter sink bolts did you use to attach the plates together and attach the front adapter to the bellhousing?
Bernie
What type counter sink bolts did you use to attach the plates together and attach the front adapter to the bellhousing?
Bernie
For the plate sandwiched between the bellhousing and the out adapter I used 2 7/16 flat head cap screws about 1 1/2 inches long.
I am having second thoughts as to weather the bellhousing is 7/16 or 12 mm. They are almost the same and the 7/16 fit but not sure if 12mm would be tighter. I will check this out this morning by getting a few 12 mm bolts and compare them to the 7/16.
I also ran 4 dowel pins into the bellhousing for the first plate and 5 into the second plate to guarantee alignment.
While this sounds like alot of work drill holes, taping with a drill and reaming holes really takes little time.
10-04-2005, 09:24 PM
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Doug & Norval, looks like you guys are moving right along with this change. Doug, it's only fall what will you do for the rest of the winter 
. Thanks for the great info and pictures I'm sure it will help alot of others in the near future. Keep up the great team work.
P.S. Got my 456 rear end out last weekend, I'm now setting up the 355 gears and will install it back into the car this weekend. So I also need something to keep me busy for the winter months.
. Thanks for the great info and pictures I'm sure it will help alot of others in the near future. Keep up the great team work.P.S. Got my 456 rear end out last weekend, I'm now setting up the 355 gears and will install it back into the car this weekend. So I also need something to keep me busy for the winter months.
10-05-2005, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Glass Act
Doug & Norval, looks like you guys are moving right along with this change. Doug, it's only fall what will you do for the rest of the winter . Thanks for the great info and pictures I'm sure it will help alot of others in the near future. Keep up the great team work.
P.S. Got my 456 rear end out last weekend, I'm now setting up the 355 gears and will install it back into the car this weekend. So I also need something to keep me busy for the winter months.
. Thanks for the great info and pictures I'm sure it will help alot of others in the near future. Keep up the great team work.P.S. Got my 456 rear end out last weekend, I'm now setting up the 355 gears and will install it back into the car this weekend. So I also need something to keep me busy for the winter months.
The Coleman BEARING DOES NOT WORK.. It is a roller bearing pressed in the back of the crank to adapt a ford to chevy. It sits too far back and the input shaft bottoms on it before the transmission sits home.
This is a minor problem but the bushing slides alot deeper into the crank and that is what we need.
I will make on out of bearing bronze.
Does anyone know the exact OD of a standard chevy bushing???
I still feel 355 gearing to too low without a overdrive for nice long cruises. Doug has that now and he has trouble at high speed long distance runs.
10-05-2005, 08:58 AM
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Norval,
That is exactly the reason I want an overdrive transmission in my '79. I'm running 3:55 rear gears and I like driving it on long cruises. At 70 MPH I'm turning 3,200 RPM's and getting 16 MPG. The voerdrive will drop the RPM's down to about 2,200 at the same speed. Much more comfortable, plus easier on the engine. Right now I just drive the car around town. But I want to take it on weekend trips at higher sustained speeds and the OD tranny is the answer and a lot more fun!
Bernie
That is exactly the reason I want an overdrive transmission in my '79. I'm running 3:55 rear gears and I like driving it on long cruises. At 70 MPH I'm turning 3,200 RPM's and getting 16 MPG. The voerdrive will drop the RPM's down to about 2,200 at the same speed. Much more comfortable, plus easier on the engine. Right now I just drive the car around town. But I want to take it on weekend trips at higher sustained speeds and the OD tranny is the answer and a lot more fun!
Bernie
10-05-2005, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by SharkAttack
Nice work so far, just don't tell anyone outside this Forum that you're using F@#$ parts! 
10-05-2005, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
Bernie with 355 gears and the .68 overdrive 60 mph is 1850, 70 is 2200 and 80 is 2500 rpm. 100 is just 3100.
Bernie
10-05-2005, 10:41 AM
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I just checked and the T5 came with a .63 overdrive 5th gear from 1979 thru 1993 with 330 lbs torque depending on the ID # and "Z" rated cobra unit. This is the tranny that Summit says they have.
10-05-2005, 10:20 PM
#17
Drifting
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by BerniesVette
I just checked and the T5 came with a .63 overdrive 5th gear from 1979 thru 1993 with 330 lbs torque depending on the ID # and "Z" rated cobra unit. This is the tranny that Summit says they have.
10-06-2005, 12:45 PM
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Doug,
You may be right about the 2.95 1st gear being too low with the 3.55 diff gears. I will have to do some research on that. I don't think that lugging in overdrive with the .63 OD gear and the 3.55 diff would be a problem though. I've driven 4 and 6 cylinder sports cars for years and am used to shifting to forth when the car starts lugging in fifth. I hate to see someone lug a car in the wrong gear. I don't believe there would be much of a difference in 2.95 and 3.35 but I will check it out. I did find out that Summit does not warranty their rebuilt T5 because Motorsport doesn't warranty it to them. That being the case, I believe I would be better off having one built locally by a friend of mine; cheaper too. Thanks for the input. I'm going to have to plan a trip to Waterloo to see you and Norval. My work space is small and I have to plan carefully when working on my car. It would be great to have a larger shop and the equipment to do what you guys do! I told Norval that you need to get a picture of him while working on your car so we can see what the "mad scientist" looks like.
Bernie
You may be right about the 2.95 1st gear being too low with the 3.55 diff gears. I will have to do some research on that. I don't think that lugging in overdrive with the .63 OD gear and the 3.55 diff would be a problem though. I've driven 4 and 6 cylinder sports cars for years and am used to shifting to forth when the car starts lugging in fifth. I hate to see someone lug a car in the wrong gear. I don't believe there would be much of a difference in 2.95 and 3.35 but I will check it out. I did find out that Summit does not warranty their rebuilt T5 because Motorsport doesn't warranty it to them. That being the case, I believe I would be better off having one built locally by a friend of mine; cheaper too. Thanks for the input. I'm going to have to plan a trip to Waterloo to see you and Norval. My work space is small and I have to plan carefully when working on my car. It would be great to have a larger shop and the equipment to do what you guys do! I told Norval that you need to get a picture of him while working on your car so we can see what the "mad scientist" looks like.
Bernie
10-06-2005, 12:57 PM
#19
Tech Contributor
You guys look like you're having a good time. I wish I was near to look over your shoulders and learn something new.
One of these days I'll have to get back up to Canada for a visit and check out the corvettes!
Gary
One of these days I'll have to get back up to Canada for a visit and check out the corvettes!
Gary
