Does anyone run on Alcohol?
C6 the C5 of tomorrow
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,665
Likes: 2
From: Twin Cities Minnesota
If you want to run methanol you want to get an alcohol carb, they are all set up for it, bigger bleeds and whatnot. Just rejetting a gas carb isn't going to work all that well from what I read...
And yea, the whole fuel system needs to be alcohol safe...
But it does burn clean!
OH, about the increased power, thats only true if you have buit the engine to use the high octane that Methanol has, otherwise you'll prolly loose power...
And yea, the whole fuel system needs to be alcohol safe...
But it does burn clean!
OH, about the increased power, thats only true if you have buit the engine to use the high octane that Methanol has, otherwise you'll prolly loose power...
Race Director
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 10,643
Likes: 8
From: Foxfield CO 1970 Convertible
This thread is filled with posts mixing discussions about Methyl alcohol (methanol) and Ethyl alcohol (ethanol). It's making no sense...
Almost every street gas pump in the country dispenses gasoline with ethanol (thanks to the green weenies who know nothing of energy). Methanol is usually what is used in racing fuel in "alky" classes.
If you want to run pure ethanol, stay out of the fast lane so the rest of the traffic can fly by you...
Almost every street gas pump in the country dispenses gasoline with ethanol (thanks to the green weenies who know nothing of energy). Methanol is usually what is used in racing fuel in "alky" classes.
If you want to run pure ethanol, stay out of the fast lane so the rest of the traffic can fly by you...
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Yes, I've run methanol race motors and just for fun in my Vette and bike. It's just over $2.10 a gallon. but you burn twice as much.
compression = heat. alki needs heat so most motors running it efficiently are in the 13 - 17 compression ratio. You need more timing like as much as 45-48 degrees.
All methanol racers add anti corrosive mix. So it's not hard on parts like it once was.
To keep water out of the oil all you have to do is keep your oil above 212 waters boiling point. Flow restrictors and smaller radiators. If you have motor coolant temps of 210 - 220 and that gets the oil to 240+ is all you need.
water absorbtion out of the air is a problem. You have to use it or store it in sealed containers.
I think that it has a place - But not in a street car
compression = heat. alki needs heat so most motors running it efficiently are in the 13 - 17 compression ratio. You need more timing like as much as 45-48 degrees.
All methanol racers add anti corrosive mix. So it's not hard on parts like it once was.
To keep water out of the oil all you have to do is keep your oil above 212 waters boiling point. Flow restrictors and smaller radiators. If you have motor coolant temps of 210 - 220 and that gets the oil to 240+ is all you need.
water absorbtion out of the air is a problem. You have to use it or store it in sealed containers.
I think that it has a place - But not in a street car
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
From: Marshalltown Iowa
Originally Posted by Z-man
This thread is filled with posts mixing discussions about Methyl alcohol (methanol) and Ethyl alcohol (ethanol). It's making no sense...
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
From: Marshalltown Iowa
Originally Posted by gkull
I think that it has a place - But not in a street car
Nothing screams power like the smell of Alky
Currently I am sitting at a dynoed 573hp at the crank before Alky. The conversion to Alky was only the first stage. Adding a Weiand 177 blower will take it up to 15.3:1 compression which is well over street gas. I am figuring about 7-800hp total by spring. So Alky does have its place on the street for those that need it.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
For a blower motor it makes the most sense. My buddy runs 17:1 static and the computer has read out as high as 53 psi of boost. He is considering less ci and get the boost over 60 psi.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,362
Likes: 1
From: San Antonio TX
I would not run straight methanol on the street as really it is not economical to do so but for race only it is the best way to go as the batch to batch consistency is the same unlike other fuels. But if you wish you can run it on the street for a street toy but as it was mentioned you will burn twice as much methanol as you would gas. And also as stated you will need to get a carb designed to run on it. You will also need everything in your fuel system updated to handle methanol as well. Also as stated it will draw water from the air so you will have to drain your system after each time you use the car and also as stated change the oil very frequently because of the contamination. As for rings you can purchase Total Seal rings which I do like. They are a two piece ring in one ring land or I should say two rings will go into the same place as one single one. That is how it becomes gapless. But you will also have to have your cylinders honed to spec to run those rings as well.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
From: Rowlett Texas
Reasons I posed the question...
#1 - To make my own fuel so that I'm not giving money to people who want to kill us, not to mention being gouged by our own US oil companies! Someone mentioned a national security threat.. I'm with you buddy..
#2 - I'm not completely convinced it would take twice as much alcohol to run than gas. I dont think the cars running E85 are burning though fuel twice as fast. If you think you can't make a performace street car using anything other than gasoline, then I would suggest you check out http://www.bankspower.com/high-performance.cfm.
#3 - I think actually making our own fuel has a very high 'cool' factor. (in more ways than one) For those of you who drink, do I really need to explain how much fun it would be to make yer own booze? I didnt think so!
#4 - Ethanol runs around $1.60 - $1.80 a gallon. I bet I could make it for a fraction of that! I dont know about the rest of you, but here in Dallas; were paying ~$3.20 for premium. Even if you'd burn through it twice as fast as gas, If I could make it for say $1 / Gal, that means I'd be paying only $2 for two gallons of Eth to a single gallon of $3.20 gas!
Someone mentioned Brazil - I'd love to hear from you!
Oh and BTW... Dont knock the fuel, todays E85 cars are not designed to be high performance, but what if they were? Hummm...
#2 - I'm not completely convinced it would take twice as much alcohol to run than gas. I dont think the cars running E85 are burning though fuel twice as fast. If you think you can't make a performace street car using anything other than gasoline, then I would suggest you check out http://www.bankspower.com/high-performance.cfm.
#3 - I think actually making our own fuel has a very high 'cool' factor. (in more ways than one) For those of you who drink, do I really need to explain how much fun it would be to make yer own booze? I didnt think so!
#4 - Ethanol runs around $1.60 - $1.80 a gallon. I bet I could make it for a fraction of that! I dont know about the rest of you, but here in Dallas; were paying ~$3.20 for premium. Even if you'd burn through it twice as fast as gas, If I could make it for say $1 / Gal, that means I'd be paying only $2 for two gallons of Eth to a single gallon of $3.20 gas!
Someone mentioned Brazil - I'd love to hear from you!
Oh and BTW... Dont knock the fuel, todays E85 cars are not designed to be high performance, but what if they were? Hummm...
Last edited by Coldburn; Oct 8, 2005 at 03:40 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
From: Marshalltown Iowa
Originally Posted by Coldburn#2
- I'm not completely convinced it would take twice as much alcohol to run than gas. I dont think the cars running E85 are burning though fuel twice as fast.
As posted earlier,,,, This thread is confusing so lets break it down.
Terminology
E-85 = 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline
E-100 = 100% ethanol
M-85 = 85% Methanol and 15% gasoline
M-100 = 100% Methanol
BTU (British Thermal Units)
1 gallon of gasoline = 125,000 btu
1 gallon of ethanol = 84,400 btu
1 gallon of methanol = 62,800 btu
Stoichiometric ratios (air - fuel ratio)
gasoline 14.7:1
ethanol 9:1 (E-100)
methanol 6.5:1 (M-100)
It becomes very clear that with methanol you will burn around twice as much. Ethanol is a close second.
Last edited by Eric R; Oct 8, 2005 at 05:40 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
From: Marshalltown Iowa
Originally Posted by Coldburn
Are you serious!?! 
I'm thinking fuel injection would be the way to go! 
I'm thinking fuel injection would be the way to go! Very serious, it gets cold
So far, outside of the condensation, it has not been a problem and it is kinda neat.