Big Ci Small Block - Advice Please
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Likes: 1
Big Ci Small Block - Advice Please
Well, upgrading from my 400 horsepower 355 to a 450hp 383 is now taking a new turn after visiting the engine builder today. He showed me a 650hp 434 he just completed and dynoed - on pump gas. Dart block, heads, ... the works. Has me thinking....
I really think anything more than 550hp will be useless in my car, so a milder version of the motor he just built might be in order.
Can anyone out there share there experience with a 434? How much horsepower... pump gas.... how many rpms.... reliable???
Thanks!
I really think anything more than 550hp will be useless in my car, so a milder version of the motor he just built might be in order.
Can anyone out there share there experience with a 434? How much horsepower... pump gas.... how many rpms.... reliable???
Thanks!
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
I just went for @600 hp with milder solid roller cam and 7000 rev limiter.
Mine is just the standard deck block with 4 inch stroke and 4.125 bore. When you get into high end rotating assemblies it doesn't cost any more to get a 4.125 stoke and 4.125 or 4.155 or 4.185 bore and end up with 441 or 447 or 454 ci. Those would really out TQ the wimpy 427 and 434 ci motors.
HP you never get enough. I have a hard time getting moving from a dead stop, but once your over 50 mph or so it can take WOT and that is when you wish that you had more HP. My car would be allot more fun and be able to go from 75 mph to 175 allot quicker if I had a 250 hp N2O shot and big enough bottles
My advice is get the tall deck Dart. jesel sells a dry toothed belt timing system for these blocks. Then think up a good head and headers combo. I had standard exhaust port heads and normal 1 3/4 headers. If your going to buy heads get some high flowing spread exhaust port heads and custom headers in the 1 7/8th - 2 inch class
Mine is just the standard deck block with 4 inch stroke and 4.125 bore. When you get into high end rotating assemblies it doesn't cost any more to get a 4.125 stoke and 4.125 or 4.155 or 4.185 bore and end up with 441 or 447 or 454 ci. Those would really out TQ the wimpy 427 and 434 ci motors.
HP you never get enough. I have a hard time getting moving from a dead stop, but once your over 50 mph or so it can take WOT and that is when you wish that you had more HP. My car would be allot more fun and be able to go from 75 mph to 175 allot quicker if I had a 250 hp N2O shot and big enough bottles
My advice is get the tall deck Dart. jesel sells a dry toothed belt timing system for these blocks. Then think up a good head and headers combo. I had standard exhaust port heads and normal 1 3/4 headers. If your going to buy heads get some high flowing spread exhaust port heads and custom headers in the 1 7/8th - 2 inch class
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,434
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St. Jude Donor '07
If i change my 355 to a 383 i make about 7 more horsepower. 
The 355 spins up faster also.
355 110 octane race gas
383 110 octane race gas
The 355 spins up faster also.
355 110 octane race gas
383 110 octane race gas
Last edited by yellow73sb; Oct 21, 2005 at 03:55 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 20,216
Likes: 4
From: Smile, it's just the internet.
Originally Posted by gkull
I just went for @600 hp with milder solid roller cam and 7000 rev limiter.
Mine is just the standard deck block with 4 inch stroke and 4.125 bore. When you get into high end rotating assemblies it doesn't cost any more to get a 4.125 stoke and 4.125 or 4.155 or 4.185 bore and end up with 441 or 447 or 454 ci. Those would really out TQ the wimpy 427 and 434 ci motors.
HP you never get enough. I have a hard time getting moving from a dead stop, but once your over 50 mph or so it can take WOT and that is when you wish that you had more HP. My car would be allot more fun and be able to go from 75 mph to 175 allot quicker if I had a 250 hp N2O shot and big enough bottles
My advice is get the tall deck Dart. jesel sells a dry toothed belt timing system for these blocks. Then think up a good head and headers combo. I had standard exhaust port heads and normal 1 3/4 headers. If your going to buy heads get some high flowing spread exhaust port heads and custom headers in the 1 7/8th - 2 inch class
Mine is just the standard deck block with 4 inch stroke and 4.125 bore. When you get into high end rotating assemblies it doesn't cost any more to get a 4.125 stoke and 4.125 or 4.155 or 4.185 bore and end up with 441 or 447 or 454 ci. Those would really out TQ the wimpy 427 and 434 ci motors.
HP you never get enough. I have a hard time getting moving from a dead stop, but once your over 50 mph or so it can take WOT and that is when you wish that you had more HP. My car would be allot more fun and be able to go from 75 mph to 175 allot quicker if I had a 250 hp N2O shot and big enough bottles
My advice is get the tall deck Dart. jesel sells a dry toothed belt timing system for these blocks. Then think up a good head and headers combo. I had standard exhaust port heads and normal 1 3/4 headers. If your going to buy heads get some high flowing spread exhaust port heads and custom headers in the 1 7/8th - 2 inch class
How much does it cost to build an engine like this?
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Big difference in price between building a 383-406ci with say a nice cast Scat 9000 crank and hyperutectic pistons. You could spend 5 to 7 grand on that with nice aluminum heads and you would be in the 500-600HP range.
Now a nice forged 434 is going to cost well over 10 grand, that's not counting custom headers etc.
That said my next motor is going to be a 750HP 434ci with Dart 11 deg Little Chief heads
Now a nice forged 434 is going to cost well over 10 grand, that's not counting custom headers etc.
That said my next motor is going to be a 750HP 434ci with Dart 11 deg Little Chief heads
Drifting
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 0
From: Huntsville Alabama
Originally Posted by Witz
Well, upgrading from my 400 horsepower 355 to a 450hp 383 is now taking a new turn after visiting the engine builder today. He showed me a 650hp 434 he just completed and dynoed - on pump gas. Dart block, heads, ... the works. Has me thinking....
I really think anything more than 550hp will be useless in my car, so a milder version of the motor he just built might be in order.
Can anyone out there share there experience with a 434? How much horsepower... pump gas.... how many rpms.... reliable???
Thanks!
I really think anything more than 550hp will be useless in my car, so a milder version of the motor he just built might be in order.
Can anyone out there share there experience with a 434? How much horsepower... pump gas.... how many rpms.... reliable???
Thanks!
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Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Originally Posted by CGGorman
How much does it cost to build an engine like this?
Dart or Motown bare block $2000
All forged internally balanced rotating kit 427 -454 $3500
Damper, water pump, timing set, pushrods, oil pan $1000
billet roller cam, good spring, stud girdle $1000
Crane solid lifters and steel rockers $850
ARP fully studded, mains, heads, exhausts $600
Valve covers, intake, demon carb $800
I have about $800 in ignition and wires $800
Heads at a minimum of $1200 my Dart 227cc cnc are $2500
Add $125 head gaskets...........oil pump..... You get nickel and dimed to death. Then you need headers&exhaust, and a radiator system. then don't forget the highend tranny and parts to take all this on. I try not to count or think about it. I feel sorry for my 315 rear tires. This weekend I'm pulling out my $1200 TC because my 427 hurt it in three months.
A smart person would get a quality 406 and put a whipple blower on it and have more power.
Last edited by gkull; Oct 21, 2005 at 05:07 PM.
GKull, don't post numbers like that, it makes me shiver 
:
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Originally Posted by yellow73sb
If i change my 355 to a 383 i make about 7 more horsepower.
The 355 spins up faster also.
355 110 octane race gas
The 355 spins up faster also.
355 110 octane race gas
Smoked tires you have a bundle in yours also. I had all that stuff in a 383 just minus the $2000 block
Pro
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
From: lantana,fl.
Originally Posted by CGGorman
How much does it cost to build an engine like this?
I still have to buy a new clutch and some more odds and ends.
When it's all over and done with and dyno time about 12 GRAND!!!!
All in the name of keeping me smiling though
Here is a picture of my 12 Grand
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,025
Likes: 1
From: Billings MT
Originally Posted by MotorHead
That said my next motor is going to be a 750HP 434ci with Dart 11 deg Little Chief heads
I have been mulling over the idea of starting an 18/15 degree headed 427, and was just looking at the Little Chiefs... 
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Likes: 1
I've purchased a big block radiator with dual spals and a TKO 600 transmission. So, most of the stuff is ready for more torque/hp. The axles are stock with new spicer u-joints. The rear is stock and in great shape (for now).
The thing I liked about my 355 was I had no traction problems. I could run a 12.9 on street tires. It was a fun/fast reving motor - but 12.9 was about all it was going to do. I'm worried about how far I can go, without just having wasted power. The 434 is going to make a ridiculous amount of torque, which I'm thinking I won't be able to put to the ground.
My next venture is going to be autocrossing and maybe mild road racing and I want to pick the right motor for that, too. I want to do a lot with one motor, so I'm trying to pick the best "all purpose". I don't care to be the fastest at any one event type, but I enjoy them all.
Maybe I should tone down from the 434?
The thing I liked about my 355 was I had no traction problems. I could run a 12.9 on street tires. It was a fun/fast reving motor - but 12.9 was about all it was going to do. I'm worried about how far I can go, without just having wasted power. The 434 is going to make a ridiculous amount of torque, which I'm thinking I won't be able to put to the ground.
My next venture is going to be autocrossing and maybe mild road racing and I want to pick the right motor for that, too. I want to do a lot with one motor, so I'm trying to pick the best "all purpose". I don't care to be the fastest at any one event type, but I enjoy them all.
Maybe I should tone down from the 434?
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 34,453
Likes: 665
From: Republic of Texas
Originally Posted by yellow73sb
If i change my 355 to a 383 i make about 7 more horsepower.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 414
Likes: 1
So, for those of you out there with 500+ hp and 500+ lbs/torque, whether from a small block or big block, how's the traction? Can you put the power to the ground, or is it worthless until you hit 50 miles/hr?? How many are still using their stock axles with spicer u-joints?