C4 Intake in a C3...
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
C4 Intake in a C3...
Hi all, here's a link to some early pics of my install.
The lower manifold is done, and everything else is just on loose for a mockup...
Let me know what you think!
http://www.elizabethvaughtonline.com...9/Default.aspx
The lower manifold is done, and everything else is just on loose for a mockup...
Let me know what you think!
http://www.elizabethvaughtonline.com...9/Default.aspx
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Buffalo Dude
Did you make the notch in the back for the distributor or does it come like that?
The 'notch' in the back is stock. One of the tricks to doing this on the cheap is to grab an 85 or 86, as 87 and up used a small cap HEI. So I'm running my stock distributor. I didn't put the cap on yet, but it should still work.
There is supposed to be a plate that goes over the distributor, I don't have that yet.
I'm not sure if it will work with my distributor or not. And I haven't even started thinking about the original ignition shielding/cover...
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Budman78
Looks like your own your way. Are you going to clean and repaint the block?
Not right now. I've got it all there for the dry fit, but now I need to start the wiring.
Hopefully I can drag my wife out there to help with some pics, I'm hoping to put together a how-to regarding C4 TPI's in C3's.
Overall, this has been a really easy change for me and I think alot of folks would be surprised at the overall lack of cost.
Time to start wrenchin!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Originally Posted by DonBecker
Bufalo Dude,
The 'notch' in the back is stock. One of the tricks to doing this on the cheap is to grab an 85 or 86, as 87 and up used a small cap HEI. So I'm running my stock distributor. I didn't put the cap on yet, but it should still work.
There is supposed to be a plate that goes over the distributor, I don't have that yet.
I'm not sure if it will work with my distributor or not. And I haven't even started thinking about the original ignition shielding/cover...
The 'notch' in the back is stock. One of the tricks to doing this on the cheap is to grab an 85 or 86, as 87 and up used a small cap HEI. So I'm running my stock distributor. I didn't put the cap on yet, but it should still work.
There is supposed to be a plate that goes over the distributor, I don't have that yet.
I'm not sure if it will work with my distributor or not. And I haven't even started thinking about the original ignition shielding/cover...
Very interesting! I'd like to learn how to do this too?
Did this TPI manifold bolt up to your heads without modifying heads/manifold?
What year are your heads?
Did OE TPI computer also drive/control OE TPI distributor advance-retard?
What sort of computer do you plan to use to control TPI?
Will computer/controller you'll use work with older big HEI?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
My stock big cap is the same size as the 85/86 vette (from what I know).
The TPI manifold bolted right up to my stock heads.
I have a 76, L-48, nothing special
I'm not going to use the OEM computer, I'm using a megasquirt:
www.megasquirt.info (general info)
www.msefi.com (forums)
I'm not going to be attempting timing control at the moment, and in the future if/when I want to control timing, I'll be able to use the same controller setup.
I bought nearly everything here:
www.rs-autosport.com
It's going to be cool to total up the costs for this, it's alot less than you'd think...
The TPI manifold bolted right up to my stock heads.
I have a 76, L-48, nothing special
I'm not going to use the OEM computer, I'm using a megasquirt:
www.megasquirt.info (general info)
www.msefi.com (forums)
I'm not going to be attempting timing control at the moment, and in the future if/when I want to control timing, I'll be able to use the same controller setup.
I bought nearly everything here:
www.rs-autosport.com
It's going to be cool to total up the costs for this, it's alot less than you'd think...
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Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 10
From: Springfield MO
St. Jude Donor '07
With some parts switching, and plates made to lock down the mechanical advance, you can convert a standard HEI to computer control. I'm putting fuel injection on a 250 I6 for a truck project, and I'm converting the HEI dizzy over to computer controled timing, as the L22 engines were mechanical/vaccum advance only.
Last edited by I'm Batman; Oct 23, 2005 at 07:26 PM.
Drifting
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,730
Likes: 1
From: Charlotte NC
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by DonBecker
My stock big cap is the same size as the 85/86 vette (from what I know).
The TPI manifold bolted right up to my stock heads.
I have a 76, L-48, nothing special
I'm not going to use the OEM computer, I'm using a megasquirt:
www.megasquirt.info (general info)
www.msefi.com (forums)
I'm not going to be attempting timing control at the moment, and in the future if/when I want to control timing, I'll be able to use the same controller setup.
I bought nearly everything here:
www.rs-autosport.com
It's going to be cool to total up the costs for this, it's alot less than you'd think...
The TPI manifold bolted right up to my stock heads.
I have a 76, L-48, nothing special
I'm not going to use the OEM computer, I'm using a megasquirt:
www.megasquirt.info (general info)
www.msefi.com (forums)
I'm not going to be attempting timing control at the moment, and in the future if/when I want to control timing, I'll be able to use the same controller setup.
I bought nearly everything here:
www.rs-autosport.com
It's going to be cool to total up the costs for this, it's alot less than you'd think...
I'm just curious.. is there any reason why you don't want to use say a 730 GM computer? They have quite a bit of functionallity built right in.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Sure, I'll fill you in.
The OEM stuff from what I know isn't modifiable. Also, if you look at the megasquirt, there are a ton of people that have created completely free software for it (logging, settings, you name it).
There's nothing like that for OEM stuff that is free AFAIK. The cool thing is that I don't have to do everything with the megasquirt but I can if I want to. I can wait to go to spark or do it from the get-go.
I did most of the wiring harness yesterday:
http://www.elizabethvaughtonline.com...0/Default.aspx
The OEM stuff from what I know isn't modifiable. Also, if you look at the megasquirt, there are a ton of people that have created completely free software for it (logging, settings, you name it).
There's nothing like that for OEM stuff that is free AFAIK. The cool thing is that I don't have to do everything with the megasquirt but I can if I want to. I can wait to go to spark or do it from the get-go.
I did most of the wiring harness yesterday:
http://www.elizabethvaughtonline.com...0/Default.aspx
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 244
Likes: 2
From: Starksboro Vermont
It's interesting to see all the Bosch injection stuff on that set-up. Makes me think doing this could be not as difficult as I thought--just have to get out my little blue Bosch bible.
Keep up this thread--I may be able to do this next spring.
Keep up this thread--I may be able to do this next spring.
Drifting
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,730
Likes: 1
From: Charlotte NC
St. Jude Donor '05
Originally Posted by DonBecker
Sure, I'll fill you in.
The OEM stuff from what I know isn't modifiable. Also, if you look at the megasquirt, there are a ton of people that have created completely free software for it (logging, settings, you name it).
There's nothing like that for OEM stuff that is free AFAIK. The cool thing is that I don't have to do everything with the megasquirt but I can if I want to. I can wait to go to spark or do it from the get-go.
I did most of the wiring harness yesterday:
http://www.elizabethvaughtonline.com...0/Default.aspx
The OEM stuff from what I know isn't modifiable. Also, if you look at the megasquirt, there are a ton of people that have created completely free software for it (logging, settings, you name it).
There's nothing like that for OEM stuff that is free AFAIK. The cool thing is that I don't have to do everything with the megasquirt but I can if I want to. I can wait to go to spark or do it from the get-go.
I did most of the wiring harness yesterday:
http://www.elizabethvaughtonline.com...0/Default.aspx
Actually the OEM stuff is quite modifiable.. Visit these sites.. moates.net and tunercat.com.
You can even outfit your '730 to handle boost, real time emulation/datalogging, and even high hp/ big injector combinations. I just finished a 440cid small block with 55lbs injectors. I have also done 502 big blocks (2 of them) with '730 computers.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Alvin, very cool links.
To give you any idea of the cost of my setup, visit the source for my stuff:
www.rs-autosport.com
To give you any idea of the cost of my setup, visit the source for my stuff:
www.rs-autosport.com
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,720
Likes: 12
From: Chattanooga TN
You can do stock TPI cheap too if you can do some fabricating. Not counting the intake you can buy a 90 Corsica (or other 7730 ECM car) harness from the junkyard to use for a base, I paid $10 for 1. You need 2 more injector leads, probably free while you are there. The 7730 ECMs can be bought for $20 or less. Whichever way you go you need a fuel pump. I guess you can do it without advance, knock, O2 sensor, or VSS but it will sure run better with them. Those small cap distributors with advance can be bought for $50 or so from 87-95 305/350/454 truck/suburban or 87-92 F-body. Finally those PROMs are not that bad. Street and Performance will do a custom PROM for $200 or Howell (stick or non-lockup trans only) for a bit less. For a basically stock engine with mass air flow you can get a Painless PROM for $100 I think. As was mentioned, there are programs out there to modify the PROM yourself.
Since you are already past all that now, I hope you get it running soon. Good luck with it. I think you will like it. I love my TPI. I have 2 of them running.
Since you are already past all that now, I hope you get it running soon. Good luck with it. I think you will like it. I love my TPI. I have 2 of them running.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,036
Likes: 13
From: Edmonton AB
Is hood clearance for FI in C3s an issue?
I ask because some of us in the C4 forum with the L98/TPI feel that
its long runners and the RPM ceilings these impose are holding us
back.
For us, hood clearance limits choice. The expense and fitment issues
of the LPE/Accel Super Ram keep me away but many chose that route.
The TPIS Mini Ram works for the folks willing and able to run higher
RPM & gears than I care to use. If it would fit, the Holley Stealth Ram
would sure be attractive - easy to install, big performance improvement
& inexpensive.
Is the HSR a viable option for the C3?
.
I ask because some of us in the C4 forum with the L98/TPI feel that
its long runners and the RPM ceilings these impose are holding us
back.
For us, hood clearance limits choice. The expense and fitment issues
of the LPE/Accel Super Ram keep me away but many chose that route.
The TPIS Mini Ram works for the folks willing and able to run higher
RPM & gears than I care to use. If it would fit, the Holley Stealth Ram
would sure be attractive - easy to install, big performance improvement
& inexpensive.
Is the HSR a viable option for the C3?
.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Ed, great timing! Lol.
I just got done spending about an hour trying to figure it out myself.
The accordion intake tube is about 3 1/8" ID, I was able to use various cans to try to figure out tube size. Mag Lite (2 1/4" OD) fit, brake fluid (2 3/4" OD) fit, but the gear oil (3 3/8" OD) did not.
Even with that piping routed, it will be directly in front of the lower A-arm and right behind the sway bar, not much room for a cone filter. On top of that, all the air will be coming up from the road to get to the filter and not from head on (I'm guessing about that making a difference).
I have a stock intake off a C4, I'm contemplating turning it upside down and putting it directly on the bottom side of the radiator shroud. If you look inside the shroud from the engine compartment, past the fan, there is a ton of space down there.
Now what I'm thinking is I could put the C4 box on the bottom, cut a hole in the bottom of the shroud before the fan, then route the air flow out the drivers' side of the shroud. It's not optimal with the bends it would need to make, but seems to be the best shot I have at getting all the air to the engine that I'm supposed to (judging from the C4 ducting sizes).
I just got done spending about an hour trying to figure it out myself.
The accordion intake tube is about 3 1/8" ID, I was able to use various cans to try to figure out tube size. Mag Lite (2 1/4" OD) fit, brake fluid (2 3/4" OD) fit, but the gear oil (3 3/8" OD) did not.
Even with that piping routed, it will be directly in front of the lower A-arm and right behind the sway bar, not much room for a cone filter. On top of that, all the air will be coming up from the road to get to the filter and not from head on (I'm guessing about that making a difference).
I have a stock intake off a C4, I'm contemplating turning it upside down and putting it directly on the bottom side of the radiator shroud. If you look inside the shroud from the engine compartment, past the fan, there is a ton of space down there.
Now what I'm thinking is I could put the C4 box on the bottom, cut a hole in the bottom of the shroud before the fan, then route the air flow out the drivers' side of the shroud. It's not optimal with the bends it would need to make, but seems to be the best shot I have at getting all the air to the engine that I'm supposed to (judging from the C4 ducting sizes).