cast crank, how much power?
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,259
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From: bakersfield cali
cast crank, how much power?
building a 454 into a 496, can't decide whether to get a forged crank or cast crank. the engine will go into my jeep wagoneer, and will have also the following, edelbrock oval port heads, victor junior, carb shop 870 cfm holley set up for blow-thru turbo, and a garret turbo ( haven't decided what size yet). I will be running about 5-10 psi, and it will have a mild custom turbo grind from comp cams. i will not be using any type of intercooling, maybe a meth kit down the road. I will be using total seal rings and forged pistons. i am guessing that this combo will be good for about 600 ponies. I talked to the guys at ohio crank and they said their cast crank is good for up to 650 to 700 ponies. this engine will eventually end up in my 86 vet. what do you guys think?
i posted here because a lot of you might be packing some stout rats under those c3's.
i posted here because a lot of you might be packing some stout rats under those c3's.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,716
Likes: 4
From: New Baden Illinois
Personally, I would be more concerned with the torque that the engine is going to put out.
Sounds like an awful lot of artificial power (turbo, etc.) to run the cast crank. That's just my opinion, though.
Sounds like an awful lot of artificial power (turbo, etc.) to run the cast crank. That's just my opinion, though.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
You are buying a stroker crank anyway and summit has the 4.250 steel cranks for $750.
Since I was buying a new crank I would go forged but cast would work fine.
People tend to get too wrapped up in 4 bolt mains and forged cranks. Rpm is what kills the motors , not power. Be sensible with the rpm and anything will live.
Since I was buying a new crank I would go forged but cast would work fine.
People tend to get too wrapped up in 4 bolt mains and forged cranks. Rpm is what kills the motors , not power. Be sensible with the rpm and anything will live.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: All humans are vermin in the eyes of Guru VA
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Cruise-In V Veteran
I believe a guy named parrish made 1000hp on a stock LS1 crank.
Bunchs of people maked 600 or so HP on stock cranks. If its gonna fail its gonna bend. Buy a good set of rods and have a good time.
Bunchs of people maked 600 or so HP on stock cranks. If its gonna fail its gonna bend. Buy a good set of rods and have a good time.
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 305
Likes: 9
From: Martell NE
Originally Posted by Guru_4_hire
I believe a guy named parrish made 1000hp on a stock LS1 crank.
Bunchs of people maked 600 or so HP on stock cranks. If its gonna fail its gonna bend. Buy a good set of rods and have a good time.
Bunchs of people maked 600 or so HP on stock cranks. If its gonna fail its gonna bend. Buy a good set of rods and have a good time.
I have 454 +30 12/8 to 1 srp pistions 990 sq port heads solid roller and a two bolt main with a cast crank. Ran for two years at the track low 10's in the 1/4 with repeated trans brake launches at 5500 rpm shifting at 6800. So far no problem. Big blocks are freaking awesome!
Race Director
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From: Corsicana, Tx
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Well, I gotta disagree here..
You're buying aluminum heads (I'd get some other one's) a blower or a turbo, forged pistons, methanol injection and planning on 5-10 psi of boost. Then we're going to put this all in a 4500 lb Wagoneer. This ain't no low dollar project!
First off, you can make 600 HP with no boost using a 496, decent heads, pump gas and a mild cam. Throwing boost in the picture opens the door wide open. And boost is just like N20 and crack..it's addictive and too easy to do "just a little more"!
I'd invest in lower end steel crank,,,at least a good SCAT or Eagle with the center counterweights. Or go out to the Callies..but I'm sure that's more than you're wanting to spend. But I just don't think a boosted application is a good place for a $250 cast crank if you have another choice. For sure there have been a gazzilion that made lots of power on cast cranks, but I don't think I'd do it in this case.
Another thing...if you go blower and drive it off the end of the crank, you want the strongest snout you can get.
JIM
You're buying aluminum heads (I'd get some other one's) a blower or a turbo, forged pistons, methanol injection and planning on 5-10 psi of boost. Then we're going to put this all in a 4500 lb Wagoneer. This ain't no low dollar project!
First off, you can make 600 HP with no boost using a 496, decent heads, pump gas and a mild cam. Throwing boost in the picture opens the door wide open. And boost is just like N20 and crack..it's addictive and too easy to do "just a little more"!
I'd invest in lower end steel crank,,,at least a good SCAT or Eagle with the center counterweights. Or go out to the Callies..but I'm sure that's more than you're wanting to spend. But I just don't think a boosted application is a good place for a $250 cast crank if you have another choice. For sure there have been a gazzilion that made lots of power on cast cranks, but I don't think I'd do it in this case.
Another thing...if you go blower and drive it off the end of the crank, you want the strongest snout you can get.
JIM
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Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by carl a
im pumpin out 532 torque on a new eagle cast stroker crank.. 195 bucks brand new
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2005
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Complete forged rotating assembly including bearings and rings for 1860.00 from speed-o-motive . I've used parts from these folks without problems. They've also have kit assemblys using cast cranks.
http://www.speedomotive.com/CHEVY%20...R%20FORGED.HTM
http://www.speedomotive.com/CHEVY%20...R%20FORGED.HTM
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: bakersfield cali
I have the heads intake and carb already, and it sits already on top of a tired 454, with a lumpy crane cam that hardly has any vacuum at idle.
I wanted to make big power and have a smooth running rig to operate my vacuum brakes since my wagoneer sees plenty of wheeling action. I'm not sure if i can make 600 ponies with a smooth idling 496. that's why I opted for the turbo. the blower is out of the question because the engine will eventually end up in my 86 vet. the blower will definately have to cut the hood and reach for the sky. I think if I get a 2 in cowl hood I can hide the big block and turbo.and since My wagoneer is already pretty banged up, I'm going to wheel the hell out of it and the big block is going to go in after I grenade my mini rammed 409.
so, yes i am on a budget, tha'tss why i wanted to go with a cast crank, so far most of you think that my cast crank will hold up, with one being undecided and 427 saying to go forged all the way.
I wanted to make big power and have a smooth running rig to operate my vacuum brakes since my wagoneer sees plenty of wheeling action. I'm not sure if i can make 600 ponies with a smooth idling 496. that's why I opted for the turbo. the blower is out of the question because the engine will eventually end up in my 86 vet. the blower will definately have to cut the hood and reach for the sky. I think if I get a 2 in cowl hood I can hide the big block and turbo.and since My wagoneer is already pretty banged up, I'm going to wheel the hell out of it and the big block is going to go in after I grenade my mini rammed 409.
so, yes i am on a budget, tha'tss why i wanted to go with a cast crank, so far most of you think that my cast crank will hold up, with one being undecided and 427 saying to go forged all the way.
Last edited by 86VX1; Feb 22, 2006 at 11:31 AM.
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 305
Likes: 9
From: Martell NE
If you are talking this kind of cash to be spent total. Build up, mods to go into a c4 vette or wagoneer etc. For a few hundred beans more to get a forged crank, it seems like that is a drop in the bucket. If you are worried about cast, then no matter what anyone says, go with forged. It is not a huge amount more compared to the cost of a BBC and personal satisfaction. If you decide to put a BBC and a turbo in any ride, you are going to spend a lot of money. Trannys, driveshafts, custom headers, the list goes on and on. This is a pretty huge project. IF you are going into this thinking that you are going to find a way to get off cheap somewhere, good luck. If you find a cheaper way, tell us all, but it is tough to do it that way.
Good luck, seriously!
Good luck, seriously!
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,135
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Originally Posted by gerry72
If it were going in a boat and operating at peak torque under boost for extended periods, you'd need to go forged. For a car, the cast crank will do fine.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
I agree with Hot Rod, cast is probably ok, but in a boosted application......it would have me worried. I tore down my nitroused 454 because I found out it had a cast crank (I was told it was forged). I hit the cast crank with around 800 hp a number of times, never had a problem. That being said as soon as I found out it was a cast crank I bought a forged Eagle. I hit the Eagle with appprox 900 hp off a transbrake with my drag car.
Since you are on a budget I would look on ebay and racingjunk. I have seen lots of new and used Chevy steel cranks for the 250-600.00 dollar range.
I have a brand new externally balanced Scat 4.00 stroke if you are interested.
Since you are on a budget I would look on ebay and racingjunk. I have seen lots of new and used Chevy steel cranks for the 250-600.00 dollar range.
I have a brand new externally balanced Scat 4.00 stroke if you are interested.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,259
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From: bakersfield cali
i see what you guys are saying, peace of mind with the forged components. i am not trying to go cheap, it's just that i have evertghing already, tpi1986 mentioned tranny upgrades, i have a th400 for the vet and the wag has an sm465, both are these are bullet proof no matter what you throw at them, i already have turbo shorties for the big block.
here's what i'm trying to avoid.
as an example, why would I get a callies crank that is rated a over 1000hp if my goal is only 600. that would be overkill for me. an eagle crank is rated at 800- 900 hp, right? i wouldn't go near that limit either.
i'm trying to avoid paying for something that I am not going to use to the limit of, if that makes sense.
but I understand what you guys are saying, if I went with a forged crank i would not even be talking about this. and this would not even be an issue.
know I have to think and tell the wife which way we are going to go. but now that some of you posted i'm leaning more towards forged.
keep posting, I need more opinios
here's what i'm trying to avoid.
as an example, why would I get a callies crank that is rated a over 1000hp if my goal is only 600. that would be overkill for me. an eagle crank is rated at 800- 900 hp, right? i wouldn't go near that limit either.
i'm trying to avoid paying for something that I am not going to use to the limit of, if that makes sense.
but I understand what you guys are saying, if I went with a forged crank i would not even be talking about this. and this would not even be an issue.
know I have to think and tell the wife which way we are going to go. but now that some of you posted i'm leaning more towards forged.
keep posting, I need more opinios
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 305
Likes: 9
From: Martell NE
Now telling the wife, whew! That can be trouble. Good thing I have just wore my wife out on this stuff over the last five or six years. As for not using the max out of a crank, and over kill. When a motor goes it is almost always the part you wish you would have gotten that was better. You know what i mean? If you think forged and you go with cast I would just hate you to be pissed if you wind up kicking yourself later. Been there and done that several times. I have been thick headed way to often. Sometimes it is just better to over do the strength and under do the work load. Parts last longer and you get to go fast instead of working on it.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
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From: Waterloo ontario Canada
How many guys actually break a crank?? Sure bearings go, bearings spin but not often do you hear of someone breaking a crank.
Actually a cast crank is better on the bearings then a forged crank. A cast crank is harder. Then again a forged if heat treated is even better.
I wouldn't have a problem with a cast crank, I run a 355 mustang with a cast crank, hyper pistons and a good shot of nitrous and don't worry about breaking.
More of the guys on the forum have cast cranks then forged.
RPM is the only thing that is going to break the crank, a spun bearing will render any crank useless.
Actually a cast crank is better on the bearings then a forged crank. A cast crank is harder. Then again a forged if heat treated is even better.
I wouldn't have a problem with a cast crank, I run a 355 mustang with a cast crank, hyper pistons and a good shot of nitrous and don't worry about breaking.
More of the guys on the forum have cast cranks then forged.
RPM is the only thing that is going to break the crank, a spun bearing will render any crank useless.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Is this car going to beat on every time you jump in it?
Is it going to sustain 7000 plus RPM all the time or on occasion.
For the street, and with 600 HP streetable? Turbo or not... You'll probably have a hard time to harness all that power to the ground.
Going all out and something that will see abuse with slicks at the track (track machine) on a regular basis. Forged... But for your application. Fine with Cast
p.s What a motor your going to have.. I'm jealous!!!
Is it going to sustain 7000 plus RPM all the time or on occasion.
For the street, and with 600 HP streetable? Turbo or not... You'll probably have a hard time to harness all that power to the ground.
Going all out and something that will see abuse with slicks at the track (track machine) on a regular basis. Forged... But for your application. Fine with Cast
p.s What a motor your going to have.. I'm jealous!!!
Last edited by Augustus; Feb 22, 2006 at 04:40 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: bakersfield cali
my wag, gets wheeled hard twice a month and almost every weekend in the summer. it hit the pismo beach dunes frequently in the summer, and in the other months I wheel it up and down in gorman or the local places here in bakersfield cali. i also take my boy to school in it and drive to work once in a while. 6-8 mpg on premium fuel, do the math.
I love the look I get when I park this thing in front of my kids school next to mercedes and brand new suv's, it horrifies parents and kids love it. when I leave the school it sets off a lot of alarms.
I don't want this thing to redline at 7000, i think with the turbo grind this motor will tach out somewhere in 5500 to 6000 range and will have a perfect lope less idle and plenty of vacuum. i might switch to a more agressive cam when it makes it's final resting place in the vet. beat up the engine? I wouldn't necessarily call it beat up. I would call it using the engine for what it was intended to do.
I love the look I get when I park this thing in front of my kids school next to mercedes and brand new suv's, it horrifies parents and kids love it. when I leave the school it sets off a lot of alarms.
I don't want this thing to redline at 7000, i think with the turbo grind this motor will tach out somewhere in 5500 to 6000 range and will have a perfect lope less idle and plenty of vacuum. i might switch to a more agressive cam when it makes it's final resting place in the vet. beat up the engine? I wouldn't necessarily call it beat up. I would call it using the engine for what it was intended to do.
