Cryogenics
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Instructor
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Windsor Ontario
Cryogenics
I have heard that if you cryogenically treat your brake pads and rotors that you will see about a 30% increase in braking effectiveness (30 % shorter stopping distance) and 3X's the life of the pads and rotors. Does anybody know if there is any truth to this?
Thanks
Mike
Thanks
Mike
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: May 2000
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From: Clearwater FL
Heard of the rotors lasting longer but not the pads or the stopping distance increase. What it pretty much does is align the molecules in the metal to make it stronger. Anything metal can be made stronger from motors to golf clubs.
http://www.alpinecryo.com/
http://www.alpinecryo.com/
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by Van Steel
Heard of the rotors lasting longer but not the pads or the stopping distance increase. What it pretty much does is align the molecules in the metal to make it stronger. Anything metal can be made stronger from motors to golf clubs.
http://www.alpinecryo.com/
http://www.alpinecryo.com/
Must be black majic. Theory sure doesn't explain it.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 241
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From: St Louis Missouri
Norval, I’m with you. Warming a metal part up to 300* isn’t even near annealing temp, and freezing it only seems to make it brittle. All I can think is maybe the freeze drying process may be able to pull some impurities out, but I doubt it.
I think this may be one of those “it last three time’s longer because we said it did”
Kind of like the HUGE benefits of putting nitrogen in your tires.
I think this may be one of those “it last three time’s longer because we said it did”
Kind of like the HUGE benefits of putting nitrogen in your tires.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
A while back there were alot of "cryogenically" treated cranks on ebay, they were supposed to be stronger than untreated cranks. Haven't seen any for sale in a while, maybe they sold them all 
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by Van Steel
Heard of the rotors lasting longer but not the pads or the stopping distance increase. What it pretty much does is align the molecules in the metal to make it stronger. Anything metal can be made stronger from motors to golf clubs.
http://www.alpinecryo.com/
http://www.alpinecryo.com/
You can not rearrange molecules. You are dealing with the unit cell, a body centered and body centered hyxagonal unit cells, retained austanite, MF and MS lines etc etc.
Temp yes can help to releave retain austanite, yes and high carbon steels after heat treating are put in a deep freeze to help transfermation of autanite to martinsite but the whole theory of taking do down , way down, leaving it for time and then a heating up cycle is
Save your money. If you insist on doing it get DRY ice from a local welding supply house and they do handle it and put your parts on it.
Temperature helps, not time.
This is all general information, not the fine details.
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Joined: May 2000
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From: Clearwater FL
Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
This theory is all fine and dandy but I have run it by some of the best metalugist in the business and they can't see how it works.
Must be black majic. Theory sure doesn't explain it.
Must be black majic. Theory sure doesn't explain it.
Must be. I don't enough about it to get into a full blown conversation about it. Now where are those witches at anyway
I'm sure if someone from NASA was here they could explain it.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 2,897
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From: Moon Township PA
Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
You can not rearrange molecules....
) from the early days of high school shop class that tempering metals does exactly that. It rearranges the molecular structure during the heating anc cooling process. It has been way too many eons so I will say this only for discussion purposes. Can someone refute my statements with fact and not "I have a friend who says/saw/did etc"....?
Just curious.
Gary
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,952
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From: Little Rock Arkansas
I usually spend my time on the C4 section, but I'm the owner of a cryogenic processing company that specializes in motorsports components.
Under the controlled processing no brittleness occurs and in fact the process is actually used to relieve residual stresses. With regards to brake components we've certified gains in excess of 300% in some situations on brake rotors (in fact, we do processing for several road racing teams as well as two F1 teams). It does not, however, seem to greatly affect pad life if they are treated.
We do cryogenic processing for several NASCAR teams, manufacturers (like Precision Industries, PSI, TCI, BTE, Edge Racing, Briggs & Stratton Motorsports, Pro-Built, etc), as well as a bunch of drag racers including some well-known Pro Stockers.
I would be happy to answer questions that any may have regarding the process; you can check our website too... We've got a couple of sections that we're redoing but they should be up in the next couple of days.
-Jeb Burnett, President
Deep Freeze Cryogenics, LLC
715 S. Arch St.
Little Rock, AR. 72201
www.deepfreezecryo.com
(501) 324-2796
Under the controlled processing no brittleness occurs and in fact the process is actually used to relieve residual stresses. With regards to brake components we've certified gains in excess of 300% in some situations on brake rotors (in fact, we do processing for several road racing teams as well as two F1 teams). It does not, however, seem to greatly affect pad life if they are treated.
We do cryogenic processing for several NASCAR teams, manufacturers (like Precision Industries, PSI, TCI, BTE, Edge Racing, Briggs & Stratton Motorsports, Pro-Built, etc), as well as a bunch of drag racers including some well-known Pro Stockers.
I would be happy to answer questions that any may have regarding the process; you can check our website too... We've got a couple of sections that we're redoing but they should be up in the next couple of days.
-Jeb Burnett, President
Deep Freeze Cryogenics, LLC
715 S. Arch St.
Little Rock, AR. 72201
www.deepfreezecryo.com
(501) 324-2796
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,628
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From: Duvall, WA
It's not that expensive to do, from what I could find.
http://www.metal-wear.com/racing_component_prices.htm
Who's going to step up and be the guinea pig?
http://www.metal-wear.com/racing_component_prices.htm
Who's going to step up and be the guinea pig?
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 40,422
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From: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted by jburnett
We do cryogenic processing for several NASCAR teams, manufacturers (like Precision Industries, PSI, TCI, BTE, Edge Racing, Briggs & Stratton Motorsports, Pro-Built, etc), as well as a bunch of drag racers including some well-known Pro Stockers.
I would be happy to answer questions that any may have regarding the process; you can check our website too... We've got a couple of sections that we're redoing but they should be up in the next couple of days.
-Jeb Burnett, President
Deep Freeze Cryogenics, LLC
715 S. Arch St.
Little Rock, AR. 72201
www.deepfreezecryo.com
(501) 324-2796
Thanks for the reply. For me, I'm not to terribly interested in brake rotors. However, what about other things were you really need some extra strength...such as con rods, piston pins, cranks, pistons,etc. These are the things you'd like to be extra strong so they don't grenade in your engine. SSBC sells cad plated steel rotors for about $135. That's a lot for a steel rotor. However, if the rotor fails, there's no extraordinary expense to replace it. With a con rod or crank failure at 6000 rpm in an aluminum block, things get a tiny bit more expensive. If the cryo freeze helps, is it applicable for internal engine components?..Opps. Didn't see the reference to your website. Maybe you answer these questions there.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
It would be very easy to prove, freeze some pads and see if the stopping distance decreases or freeze a piece of 4340 steel and test it to see if it is stronger that a similar piece of 4340 steel. Is there any independant lab tests like this. If this process does work there must be thousands of independant test results supporting it
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,063
Likes: 1
From: Beverly Massachusetts
Originally Posted by 68/70Vette
Thanks for the reply. For me, I'm not to terribly interested in brake rotors. However, what about other things were you really need some extra strength...such as con rods, piston pins, cranks, pistons,etc. These are the things you'd like to be extra strong so they don't grenade in your engine. SSBC sells cad plated steel rotors for about $135. That's a lot for a steel rotor. However, if the rotor fails, there's no extraordinary expense to replace it. With a con rod or crank failure at 6000 rpm in an aluminum block, things get a tiny bit more expensive. If the cryo freeze helps, is it applicable for internal engine components?..Opps. Didn't see the reference to your website. Maybe you answer these questions there.
they have a pricing section here http://www.deepfreezecryo.com/pricing.htm
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
I used to shoot benchrest .50 caliber rifles and when we Cryo'd the .50 barrells they lasted longer. I also have a friend that works for Sonny Bryant cranks and almost every NASCAR, Pro-Stock and Top Fuel team specifically requests the cranks be frozen before shipped.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,623
Likes: 29
From: The Netherlands
Originally Posted by MotorHead
It would be very easy to prove, freeze some pads and see if the stopping distance decreases or freeze a piece of 4340 steel and test it to see if it is stronger that a similar piece of 4340 steel. Is there any independant lab tests like this. If this process does work there must be thousands of independant test results supporting it
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by MotorHead
It would be very easy to prove, freeze some pads and see if the stopping distance decreases or freeze a piece of 4340 steel and test it to see if it is stronger that a similar piece of 4340 steel. Is there any independant lab tests like this. If this process does work there must be thousands of independant test results supporting it
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
THis treatment has been around for years, like I said there must be thousands of test results on this from everything from brake pads to cranks to who knows what.
If a Nascar team wants a frozen crank that's fine but it does not prove this treatment works, the actual experience with the gun barrels is interesting though. We need proof from an independant unbiased test lab
If a Nascar team wants a frozen crank that's fine but it does not prove this treatment works, the actual experience with the gun barrels is interesting though. We need proof from an independant unbiased test lab
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,028
Likes: 0
From: Madison Ms
Originally Posted by jburnett
I usually spend my time on the C4 section, but I'm the owner of a cryogenic processing company that specializes in motorsports components.
Under the controlled processing no brittleness occurs and in fact the process is actually used to relieve residual stresses. With regards to brake components we've certified gains in excess of 300% in some situations on brake rotors (in fact, we do processing for several road racing teams as well as two F1 teams). It does not, however, seem to greatly affect pad life if they are treated.
We do cryogenic processing for several NASCAR teams, manufacturers (like Precision Industries, PSI, TCI, BTE, Edge Racing, Briggs & Stratton Motorsports, Pro-Built, etc), as well as a bunch of drag racers including some well-known Pro Stockers.
I would be happy to answer questions that any may have regarding the process; you can check our website too... We've got a couple of sections that we're redoing but they should be up in the next couple of days.
-Jeb Burnett, President
Deep Freeze Cryogenics, LLC
715 S. Arch St.
Little Rock, AR. 72201
www.deepfreezecryo.com
(501) 324-2796
Under the controlled processing no brittleness occurs and in fact the process is actually used to relieve residual stresses. With regards to brake components we've certified gains in excess of 300% in some situations on brake rotors (in fact, we do processing for several road racing teams as well as two F1 teams). It does not, however, seem to greatly affect pad life if they are treated.
We do cryogenic processing for several NASCAR teams, manufacturers (like Precision Industries, PSI, TCI, BTE, Edge Racing, Briggs & Stratton Motorsports, Pro-Built, etc), as well as a bunch of drag racers including some well-known Pro Stockers.
I would be happy to answer questions that any may have regarding the process; you can check our website too... We've got a couple of sections that we're redoing but they should be up in the next couple of days.
-Jeb Burnett, President
Deep Freeze Cryogenics, LLC
715 S. Arch St.
Little Rock, AR. 72201
www.deepfreezecryo.com
(501) 324-2796
Hey man....can you treat an engine block?
(If you haven't read my thesis, you won't understand).