New Engine Won't Start - What am I doing Wrong???
Thread Starter
Supporting Lifetime Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 454
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From: Lovettsville Virginia
New Engine Won't Start - What am I doing Wrong???
Finally, I'm nearing the end of a long winter project on my '68 4 speed. I've completely rebuilt the front suspension, engine compartment, brake system, and most importantly - an engine upgrade for more power. I replaced my numbers matching 327/350 with a 350 (.040 over) built with the Edelbrock Performer RPM package. Eventually, I plan to rebuild the original engine.
Anyway, I tried last night to start it for the first time and - nothing. I'm getting fuel, spark to the coil and plugs, and good oil pressure, but it won't fire. All I had time for last night was to recheck the correct distributor installation and timing and it seems to be right, but still - nothing. My gut tells me that the timing is not right, but I haven't figured out what I'm doing wrong and I didn't want to keep cranking and cranking until I got a little smarter. I plan to recheck the rocker settings because I noticed that at TDC, the number 1 rockers were loose when they should have some preload. Don't know if that would keep it from firing.
Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas on what I'm doing wrong? I'm dying to get back on the road soon since spring is here. (BTW, I'm using stock points). Thanks!
Anyway, I tried last night to start it for the first time and - nothing. I'm getting fuel, spark to the coil and plugs, and good oil pressure, but it won't fire. All I had time for last night was to recheck the correct distributor installation and timing and it seems to be right, but still - nothing. My gut tells me that the timing is not right, but I haven't figured out what I'm doing wrong and I didn't want to keep cranking and cranking until I got a little smarter. I plan to recheck the rocker settings because I noticed that at TDC, the number 1 rockers were loose when they should have some preload. Don't know if that would keep it from firing.
Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas on what I'm doing wrong? I'm dying to get back on the road soon since spring is here. (BTW, I'm using stock points). Thanks!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,640
Likes: 287
From: Ann Arbor Michigan
Check the voltage at the coil. Should have 12 volts during cranking and about 9 in run mode. If it's less than 12 during cranking, the solenoid is bad and you'll have to crank the hell out of it to get it to start. Otherwise check valve lash and timing as you suspect.
Thread Starter
Supporting Lifetime Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 454
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From: Lovettsville Virginia
I initially poured fuel down the carb. As I cranked it more, it was obviously getting fuel the "normal" way by pressing the accelerator, so I'd be afraid of flooding it. It never seemed like it wanted to catch or sputter or anything. That was leading me back to the timing.
Last edited by jon68l79; Mar 21, 2006 at 12:54 PM. Reason: forgot to answer part of question
Pro
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 560
Likes: 1
From: Mooresville NC
Take out the #1 spark plug and put you finger on the hole. Have someone bump start the engine until air pushes your finger out of the hole. Look at the distributor, is the rotor pointing at the #1 terminal at the cap. This makes sure that you installed the distributor correctly. Also check the spark plug wire order. This has gotten me many times.
Sounds like you have spark. You may try sarting fluid down the carb. If you have spark it WILL fire. Then just adjust your timing, valves etc.
Sounds like you have spark. You may try sarting fluid down the carb. If you have spark it WILL fire. Then just adjust your timing, valves etc.
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Thread Starter
Supporting Lifetime Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 454
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From: Lovettsville Virginia
Right now I'm not ruling anything out. I hope it is something as simple as the plug wires out of order and I'm definitely going to check that first. Also sounds like I may need some more fuel at startup and need to verify the distributor setting. I'll try all of those tonight and post a followup.
Any other suggestions?
Any other suggestions?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 2,010
Likes: 3
From: Moon Twp. PA USA
Originally Posted by jon68l79
Finally, I'm nearing the end of a long winter project on my '68 4 speed. I've completely rebuilt the front suspension, engine compartment, brake system, and most importantly - an engine upgrade for more power. I replaced my numbers matching 327/350 with a 350 (.040 over) built with the Edelbrock Performer RPM package. Eventually, I plan to rebuild the original engine.
Anyway, I tried last night to start it for the first time and - nothing. I'm getting fuel, spark to the coil and plugs, and good oil pressure, but it won't fire. All I had time for last night was to recheck the correct distributor installation and timing and it seems to be right, but still - nothing. My gut tells me that the timing is not right, but I haven't figured out what I'm doing wrong and I didn't want to keep cranking and cranking until I got a little smarter. I plan to recheck the rocker settings because I noticed that at TDC, the number 1 rockers were loose when they should have some preload. Don't know if that would keep it from firing.
Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas on what I'm doing wrong? I'm dying to get back on the road soon since spring is here. (BTW, I'm using stock points). Thanks!
Anyway, I tried last night to start it for the first time and - nothing. I'm getting fuel, spark to the coil and plugs, and good oil pressure, but it won't fire. All I had time for last night was to recheck the correct distributor installation and timing and it seems to be right, but still - nothing. My gut tells me that the timing is not right, but I haven't figured out what I'm doing wrong and I didn't want to keep cranking and cranking until I got a little smarter. I plan to recheck the rocker settings because I noticed that at TDC, the number 1 rockers were loose when they should have some preload. Don't know if that would keep it from firing.
Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas on what I'm doing wrong? I'm dying to get back on the road soon since spring is here. (BTW, I'm using stock points). Thanks!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 0
This exact thing is happening to me right now. I traced my problem back to it not getting fuel. Your car should at least backfire on you (which is what mine did to me last night when I put some fuel into it). After you figure out that you need fuel, you might want to try a different carb because it sounds like you carb isn't dumping fuel like it's supposed to (or your fuel pump isn't working properly). I just took the holley that I bought used off E-bay off and put my edelbrock on there (the one that I was using before and can verify that it works) and will try to give it a crank tonight.. I bet it's going to work.
BTW.. I am 100% positive that my plugs have spark, that they are in the correct order, and I even turned the engine by hand and observed the intake valve rise and shut and made sure that while doing so my flywheel was pointing to the 0 mark and the distributor rotor was pointing to my #1 plug
BTW.. I am 100% positive that my plugs have spark, that they are in the correct order, and I even turned the engine by hand and observed the intake valve rise and shut and made sure that while doing so my flywheel was pointing to the 0 mark and the distributor rotor was pointing to my #1 plug
Last edited by majic1984; Mar 21, 2006 at 03:37 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Originally Posted by Easy Mike
Sure could, but something ought to light to the point where she would at least backfire.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,024
Likes: 1
From: AL
Just thinking out loud here .02: If you have points, you can pretty much set the timing with an ohm meter. You'll probably have a multimeter out anyway checking voltages. Even with wires crossed, dist 180 out, etc., there's a really good chance you would get fire or a backfire (save bobs77vett experience). Sounds like maybe not enough voltage to the coil. Maybe a bad ground. Did you repaint, i.e., mess with ground? Could a wire be missing on the coil? Sometimes an engine can be hard to start on flooded plugs. Use a compression gauge to be sure valves are closing. If it has spark and gas, it should fire after no more than 3 revolutions, maybe less. Any more cranking usually means some kind of trouble (as you already know).
Last edited by S489; Mar 21, 2006 at 03:53 PM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 454
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From: Lovettsville Virginia
Glen- The cam has not been broken in yet and you expressed my exact concern. I was worried about damaging the cam too so I though I'd better find out what the problem is before I messed something up. I hope I didn't crank too much...
As far as the carb/fuel pump goes, they are both new. The carb is a Holley Street Eliminator 770 cfm and the pump is a Holley higher than stock flow (85 gpm I think). I have the old 650 carb that I could try because like someone said, I know that one worked on my old engine.
Yes, I did repaint both the engine and the frame, so I'll also check the ground between the 2, as well as the voltage at the coil.
From the feedback, it may be fuel related afterall. I checked and double checked the timing (and I'll do it again) and thought I had it right, but I definitely didn't get any backfiring or anything.
As far as the carb/fuel pump goes, they are both new. The carb is a Holley Street Eliminator 770 cfm and the pump is a Holley higher than stock flow (85 gpm I think). I have the old 650 carb that I could try because like someone said, I know that one worked on my old engine.
Yes, I did repaint both the engine and the frame, so I'll also check the ground between the 2, as well as the voltage at the coil.
From the feedback, it may be fuel related afterall. I checked and double checked the timing (and I'll do it again) and thought I had it right, but I definitely didn't get any backfiring or anything.
Thread Starter
Supporting Lifetime Member
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Lovettsville Virginia
Update - I've been working on this since I got home from work and here's where I'm at:
1. Verified that timing is set correctly at TDC with No. 1 cylinder firing;
2. Verified that plug wires are installed correctly;
3. Checked voltage across coil without cranking - read about 6.5 volts
4. Checked voltage across coil while cranking - read about 3.5 volts;
5. Checked voltage across coil wires with coil disconnected - read 12.5 volts;
6. Scraped paint from engine ground strap connections - no change in volt readings;
7. Replaced starter with one I had that was practically new - no change in volt readings;
8. Replaced coil with brand new one - voltage dropped to slightly under 6.0
Dumped a bunch of gas down carb. Still won't start. I haven't reset the valves yet - guess thats next.
Am I getting the correct voltage across the coil? Someone mentioned I should have 12 v- I'm half of that. What am I missing???
1. Verified that timing is set correctly at TDC with No. 1 cylinder firing;
2. Verified that plug wires are installed correctly;
3. Checked voltage across coil without cranking - read about 6.5 volts
4. Checked voltage across coil while cranking - read about 3.5 volts;
5. Checked voltage across coil wires with coil disconnected - read 12.5 volts;
6. Scraped paint from engine ground strap connections - no change in volt readings;
7. Replaced starter with one I had that was practically new - no change in volt readings;
8. Replaced coil with brand new one - voltage dropped to slightly under 6.0
Dumped a bunch of gas down carb. Still won't start. I haven't reset the valves yet - guess thats next.
Am I getting the correct voltage across the coil? Someone mentioned I should have 12 v- I'm half of that. What am I missing???