Final Eng. Set Up
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 540
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '09, '24
Would use Shell Rotella oil for the break in. Has high zinc content to aid in breaking in new bearings and lifters. What size jets are you running in your carb? Your cam is a little small for your carb IMO. Not a very aggressive cam profile and the 350 HP range with your compression ratio sounds about right. Most folks over carb their motor and lose lots of HP this way also. At WOT in a well tuned situation you should be useing about 99% of your carbs capable cfm. Anything less will result with HP losses. I would go with small jets at first and work you way up after you break the motor in for your first tuneing work. My 74 has a 350 10 1/2 compression, cam a little bigger then yours(biggest Hyd cam stock Tconverter)World Torqure heads 170 CC intake runner and runs hard on a Holley 650 Dbl Pmp. Haven't gotten around to the final tune but right out of the box no hesitation or bogging down from being over carbed. I'm looking around 360 HP for my setup, houstonvett
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,098
Likes: 378
From: Las Vegas - Just stop perpetuating myths please.
Keep it simple for start-up.
Originally Posted by sly vette
Anything special I should do besides a good prime,proper dist. placement and a quality oil?
Thanks again Jackson and Cardo,
Later,
Sly
Thanks again Jackson and Cardo,
Later,
Sly
Yes, use a carb that u know works - have it tried out on a running engine first.
Same thing with dist/ign if possible and don't get fancy here - install the add-ons later. I was lucky enough to have had lars rebuild and test/tune my carb before start-up - but my old batt let me down. 
BTW it just my opinion but if the engine brgs, cam and vlv train are all moly-assembly lubed, oil priming not really needed. In fact oil washes off the moly lube - though it takes a while. And removing the dist then stuffing back in ain't fun while also produce timing errors if not careful.
cardo0
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 1
From: Algonac Michigan
Thanks guys,I have a carb that I bought from another site member who says that the carb came off of a running engine. Thanks for the other tips also. The knowledge you guys have shared with me in making the decisions about my eng. has really made the process much easier.
Later,
Sly
Later,
Sly
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 1
From: Algonac Michigan
Originally Posted by sly vette
Well after alot of research,I've come up with the final componants for my eng. First I have a 350 4 bolt main .060 over w/9.7:1 cr. I'm going to now install cast alum. flat top pistons(w/ small valve relief,like a stock top),a Edelbrock alum. manifold,a Edelbrock 750cfm carb.,Speed Pro cam(.443/.465 214/224),headers. and the plus side to this is that,when I pulled the heads(cast camels) I found that I have 2.02" valves as opposed to the 1.94" valves that I thought I had. I was wondering how much benefit I can expect from the larger valves W/ported(unpolished)heads? Really the reason for posting this is get some input as to my decisions due to the fact that the help I received on this forum helped alot,especially with the cam.(Thanks Cardo and Jackson). Also I don't know if this is poss but,can anyone give me a rough estimate on my anticipated H.P.? Thanks again guys,the forum comes through for me again.
Later,
Sly
Later,
Sly
I think I have a good combo for what I want it to do. Any other input???
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,743
Likes: 37
From: Stockton Ca
SLY: My engine is similar to yours. My 218-224 cam is Hyd Rol + 1.6RRs =.531 I/.539E. I have TFS heads and air gap. My engine w/rams horns put out 280 rwhp @5 K and 315 rwtq @4100. Your heads ported or not are the weak link. I don't think valve reliefs are needed for less than .500 valve lift. Your just loosing cr. Plan on upgrading cooling and other systems. JMHO
Rick
Rick
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 2,010
Likes: 3
From: Moon Twp. PA USA
Originally Posted by sly vette
In addition,I will be using a NAPA/Victor Reinz head gasket part #5746 @ .026 thickness.
I think I have a good combo for what I want it to do. Any other input???
I think I have a good combo for what I want it to do. Any other input???
Always check piston to valve clearance, but with those lift numbers, I don't believe you will have a problem.
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Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 1
From: Algonac Michigan
Total cost of rebuild is about $950.00. All parts were bought locally.
Glen,are you saying that I need a thinner head gasket for a zero decked block,which mine is? I've had a few guys explain what "quench" is,but I just can't seem to get my brain to accept it.
Later,
Sly
By the way,is Moon Twp near North Hills???
Glen,are you saying that I need a thinner head gasket for a zero decked block,which mine is? I've had a few guys explain what "quench" is,but I just can't seem to get my brain to accept it.
Later,
Sly
By the way,is Moon Twp near North Hills???
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Sly:
Is your block truly zero decked with your new pistons? ... top of piston truly level with top of block? This thing has gone back & forth for some weeks ... for some reason I thought you DID NOT have a zero deck????
If it's truly zero deck then you best not use VR 5746 (0.026") and look to a FP 7733 (0.041") ... even with FP 7733 and zero deck, your flattop & iron 63cc 360" combo would be 10:1-10.5:1 CR. You really need to verify by measurement exactly what the deck is. If you guess wrong you'll be less than pleased w/outcome.
Is your block truly zero decked with your new pistons? ... top of piston truly level with top of block? This thing has gone back & forth for some weeks ... for some reason I thought you DID NOT have a zero deck????
If it's truly zero deck then you best not use VR 5746 (0.026") and look to a FP 7733 (0.041") ... even with FP 7733 and zero deck, your flattop & iron 63cc 360" combo would be 10:1-10.5:1 CR. You really need to verify by measurement exactly what the deck is. If you guess wrong you'll be less than pleased w/outcome.
Originally Posted by sly vette
are you saying that I need a thinner head gasket for a zero decked block,which mine is?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 1
From: Algonac Michigan
I think what is happining here is that I am confused by some of the terms. I must have mis-spoke when I heard the term "zero deck". I assumed,incorrectly,that the term meant that the block has never been milled. Mine has not and I say this 'cause I can still see the stamped numbers on the R/F pad. I see now,after your response that "zero deck" means that the piston top is at the top of the bore at full comp. Is this correct? I currently have 5.7" rods,cast alum. pistons(sil-vo-lite Is the brand) Heads that have milled twice,and like I stated before,the block has not been touched. Will these parts along with the .026 Gasket be a fair match? This is all getting to be old,and I want to get this eng. back together,but I won't do so 'till I know it's right. My ignorrance in this matter has been very frusterating Please let me know if anything i've said makes any sense,and how far off base I am at this point.
Thanks,
Later,
Sly
Please let me know if anything i've said makes any sense,and how far off base I am at this point.Thanks,
Later,
Sly
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
Originally Posted by sly vette
I see now,after your response that "zero deck" means that the piston top is at the top of the bore at full comp. Is this correct?
You inform us with only incomplete bits & pieces ... not good. Now you tell us they're silvolite ... those are NOT forged. You had emailed me that your flattop 4vr "forged" pistons have 1.54" CH ... if you have a stock 9.025" uncut deck then those 1.54 are 0.045" down in hole. If this is so you cannot get a decent quench. If it's not too late have your builder install pistons with 1.560"-1.565" CH and a dish with your 63cc heads ... Silvolite & many others make em. If you must run what you got ... then run a felpro 1094 (0.015") gasket.
A SpeedPro P/N H126CP+60 piston (reverse dome/-16cc dish 1.560" CH) and a 1094 gasket will make 9.44:1 CR w/ your 63cc iron heads & uncut block with 0.040" quench ... it'll work good w/ your 1013 cam.
Last edited by jackson; Apr 11, 2006 at 09:16 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 2,010
Likes: 3
From: Moon Twp. PA USA
Originally Posted by sly vette
Total cost of rebuild is about $950.00. All parts were bought locally.
Glen,are you saying that I need a thinner head gasket for a zero decked block,which mine is? I've had a few guys explain what "quench" is,but I just can't seem to get my brain to accept it.
Later,
Sly
By the way,is Moon Twp near North Hills???
Glen,are you saying that I need a thinner head gasket for a zero decked block,which mine is? I've had a few guys explain what "quench" is,but I just can't seem to get my brain to accept it.
Later,
Sly
By the way,is Moon Twp near North Hills???
If the heads have been milled twice, you need to find out what the present combustion chamber cc is. Once you know that, and have piston cc, deck height, etc. you can plug this into a CR calculator, I use the one on the Keith Black piston site. You can change the compressed thickness on the head gasket to see what you will have, CR wise, all other things being equal.
Quench is the distance from the top of the piston at TDC to the flat part of the head. In otherwords, if you are the stock 0.025 down in the hole at TDC and you use a 0.026 gasket your quench will be 0.051.
Where it becomes tricky is if you use a headgasket to give you proper quench, +/- 0.040, and the heads or block have been milled, and the pistons changed to flat top or dome, you may end up with a too high CR.
I am running a zero deck block with 12cc dish pistons, 64 cc heads, and a 0.039 head gasket on my 383.
This gives me a 0.039 quench and a CR of about 10.3.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 1
From: Algonac Michigan
Well I guess with my lack of knowledge,when it comes to putting all the right pieces together for a decent rebuild,and the mis-information I've put out there,due again to my ignorance,I think I've used enough of all of your time. I allready bought the .026 gaskets,the cast pistons are pressed on the rods,I guess all I can do is have the block decked .010 and let it ride.Thanks again guys,and sorry for taking up so much of your time. All of you have been very patient.
Later,
Sly
Later,
Sly
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
DON'T deck that block
Sly:
DON'T simply deck the block!
Don't misunderstand ... I'm all for having a good quench.
But ... In the broadest (in general) sense ... having a good CR is more important than having a good quench. Best to have both good but if you MUST choose between the two, go for a good CR first.
What you have right now w/ VR 5746 gasket should make about 9.9:1 static CR w/ about 0.071" quench.
If you deck the block 0.010" w/ VR 5746 gasket you'll have about 10.1:1 static CR w/ about 0.061" quench.
If you change to thicker FP 7733 gasket you'll have about 9.6:1 static CR w/ about 0.086" quench. If you are limited as to what you can/will do ... I strongly suggest this approach ... it's easiest, cheapest & will yield a better result than what you've suggested or have now. And no point in grabbing your marbles & hauling butt now ... learn from this ... when you're at the table again, know & show all of whatcha got.
BTW ... GM shipped gazillions of small blocks with + 0.080" quench ... no it ain't the best approach ... but it is what it is.
DON'T simply deck the block!
Don't misunderstand ... I'm all for having a good quench.
But ... In the broadest (in general) sense ... having a good CR is more important than having a good quench. Best to have both good but if you MUST choose between the two, go for a good CR first.
What you have right now w/ VR 5746 gasket should make about 9.9:1 static CR w/ about 0.071" quench.
If you deck the block 0.010" w/ VR 5746 gasket you'll have about 10.1:1 static CR w/ about 0.061" quench.
If you change to thicker FP 7733 gasket you'll have about 9.6:1 static CR w/ about 0.086" quench. If you are limited as to what you can/will do ... I strongly suggest this approach ... it's easiest, cheapest & will yield a better result than what you've suggested or have now. And no point in grabbing your marbles & hauling butt now ... learn from this ... when you're at the table again, know & show all of whatcha got.
BTW ... GM shipped gazillions of small blocks with + 0.080" quench ... no it ain't the best approach ... but it is what it is.
Originally Posted by sly vette
I allready bought the .026 gaskets,the cast pistons are pressed on the rods,I guess all I can do is have the block decked .010 and let it ride.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 1
From: Algonac Michigan
"If you change to thicker FP 7733 gasket you'll have about 9.6:1 static CR w/ about 0.086" quench. If you are limited as to what you can/will do ... I strongly suggest this approach ... it's easiest, cheapest & will yield a better result than what you've suggested or have now."
"If you must run what you got ... then run a felpro 1094 (0.015") gasket."
Yes I am confused...What balance should I try to achieve in regards to CR and quench and when is too much CR a bad thing???
"If you must run what you got ... then run a felpro 1094 (0.015") gasket."
Yes I am confused...What balance should I try to achieve in regards to CR and quench and when is too much CR a bad thing???
Last edited by sly vette; Apr 13, 2006 at 12:22 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
SLY:
Scratch the 1094 ... I suggested that BEFORE I understood what you really have now.
With latest info, do run 7733 ... but you'd probably be much better off if you'd install a set a cheap, slightly taller, dished pistons and a thin gasket. But ... you tell us you will not change pistons ... so, run the thick 7733 gasket.
I'm not trying to bust your chops ... but simple fact that silvolite flattops are also a cheap piston ... there's nothing wrong with them ... wholesale/jobber about $40/set of 8.
with pistons & block height you've described as having:
CR --------- Gasket ---------Quench
9.5:1------7733/1003---------0.086"
9.9:1------5746--------------0.071"
10.2:1-----1094--------------0.060"
cr calculator:
http://www.campbellenterprises.com/R...o%20calculator
You choose.
Scratch the 1094 ... I suggested that BEFORE I understood what you really have now.
With latest info, do run 7733 ... but you'd probably be much better off if you'd install a set a cheap, slightly taller, dished pistons and a thin gasket. But ... you tell us you will not change pistons ... so, run the thick 7733 gasket.
I'm not trying to bust your chops ... but simple fact that silvolite flattops are also a cheap piston ... there's nothing wrong with them ... wholesale/jobber about $40/set of 8.
with pistons & block height you've described as having:
CR --------- Gasket ---------Quench
9.5:1------7733/1003---------0.086"
9.9:1------5746--------------0.071"
10.2:1-----1094--------------0.060"
cr calculator:
http://www.campbellenterprises.com/R...o%20calculator
You choose.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,570
Likes: 1
From: Algonac Michigan
It appears that I've done things alittle bass akwards here. So since I only get one shot at this I guess it's time for some reconsideration. I'll get back when I have things alittle more sorted out. Not knowing which way to go in the beginning,was a real set back. POOR PLANNING=POOR RESULT!!!!!! My bad... Any one out there getting ready for a rebuild TAKE NOTE!!!
Later,
Sly
Later,
Sly