starter shims???? help!
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 373
Likes: 1
From: Bayonne NJ
starter shims???? help!
Ok so i tried to turn the engine over on my 79 today.. the starter just made a grinding noise, sort of the noise when the car doesn't have enough juice to turn over.. i am running a replacement oem starter.. Is it a possibility that i need to shim the starter? If so how do i kno where to put the shims? or is it more of a trial and error type of thing??
Just another Corvette guy
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 8,518
Likes: 3,865
From: Palm Springs, CA.
Hi Ed,
Your starter would have to be pretty far out of alignment for it to not engage at all. Usually the shims are for smaller adjustments and they fit between the upper part of the starter where the two mounting bolts protrude and the block where the starter is mounted. If you're only getting a grinding noise, are you certain your grounds and positive cables are connected securely and correctly? You may not be getting enouigh juice to the starter. this is an easy thing to overlook sometimes.
Good luck,
Greg
Your starter would have to be pretty far out of alignment for it to not engage at all. Usually the shims are for smaller adjustments and they fit between the upper part of the starter where the two mounting bolts protrude and the block where the starter is mounted. If you're only getting a grinding noise, are you certain your grounds and positive cables are connected securely and correctly? You may not be getting enouigh juice to the starter. this is an easy thing to overlook sometimes.
Good luck,
Greg
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 373
Likes: 1
From: Bayonne NJ
I dont kno guys.. I definitly had enough juice.. i took the high output battery out of my titan to use to jump it.. My mechanic said that he had to sometimes shim stock starters.. When i tried to turn it over it would sometimes seem bound up on something.. when i would turn the engine over manually i would hear a pop, and it sounded like the starter was being freed from the jam.. Im just aggravated, i need a day away from the vette and start fresh again tomorrow..
Last edited by BanGnGearS; Apr 5, 2006 at 05:05 PM.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 402
Likes: 4
From: Nassau
The easiest thing is to get under the car and check the clearence between the starter gear and the flywheel when you pull it out so its engaged. I had to shim my starter. It worked a few times before shimming it but used to stick every now and then and other times not engage at all.
Did you just install the starter or is this something out of the blue?
Did you just install the starter or is this something out of the blue?
Pro
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 708
Likes: 0
From: somewhere south of normal
Something else to think about are the teeth on the ring gear, are any chewed up or worn down? I had this grinding and not engaging problem, and had to install a new ring gear on the flywheel. Problem solved.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 248
Likes: 1
From: Apopka Florida
You may have a bad torque convertor or a flexpate problem. possibley broken at the engine mount. Something may be causing the engine to freeze up. can you turn the engine over with a breaker bar?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 892
Likes: 0
From: GA
Also, is there a bracket on the starter? Mine was grinding bad until folks on this forum informed me there should be a bracket on the starter that bolts to the engine. This helps the starter stay square against the flange. After a few times starting it without the bracket, the starter jumped sideways a little and caused the teeth to be off a bit... This is an easy fix... not sure if you car needs it though?
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 373
Likes: 1
From: Bayonne NJ
My vette has a manual trans, so it wouldn't be a torque converter.. With the headers that i put on its a pain to get the starter out, i would have to take the header back off.. The starter is brand new and the engine is freshly built.. I can turn the engine freely with spark plugs out by using a breaker bar on the pulley bolts... I didn't work on it today, i will tomorrow morning when i get out of work.. If i worked on it again today i would have been asking how to replace windows and such 
Pro
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 620
Likes: 2
From: San Antonio TX
Originally Posted by BanGnGearS
Ok so i tried to turn the engine over on my 79 today.. the starter just made a grinding noise, sort of the noise when the car doesn't have enough juice to turn over.. i am running a replacement oem starter.. Is it a possibility that i need to shim the starter? If so how do i kno where to put the shims? or is it more of a trial and error type of thing??
The first time I replaced the starter, I forgot to put the shim back in.
When I turned the key, it would occasionally make a loud click and that was it. No grinding noise or anything.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,662
Likes: 8
From: Knoxville Tennessee
If you buy a shim pack from one of the local parts houses there should be instructions on how to start shimming the starter. I believe that you first install a shim on the outside bolt of the starter and try it. If that doesn't solve the problem, take that shim out and install one on the inside and try. If that still doesn't work, install shims on both sides. I just installed a new starter and was lucky, didn't need any shims. The header being in the way is a PITA!
Bernie
Bernie
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 373
Likes: 1
From: Bayonne NJ
i haven't resolved the issue yet.. i will be working on the problem tomorrow.. one of the members here told me to order a 454 starter instead of shimming... it will fix the problem.. i got one from my parts dealer for 30 bucks... i'll post again tomorrow night b4 work.. hopefully she kicks over....
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
From: michigantown IN.
Noisy starter....Smallblock W/big block flywheel
I've had a noisy starter since buying my 69 4 speed small block,and have tried shimming to no avail.I noticed that my car has a #3789733 flywheel from a 68-69 big block,70 lt-1,w/an 11" disk. Would it use a different starter than my 68 small block did?The ring gear shows a little wear but nothing significant.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
You can pull the starter gear out. It is spring loaded but hook a screwdriver behind and and force it out. Bet it doesn't pass all the way throught the ring gear either???
Force it out and see if you can see the problem.
Nearly all of the starter gears are too far back, away from the flywheel.
How a starter should work is the gear moves forward, engages the flywheel ring gear and then starts to turn.
Our's starts spinning before it engages the ring gear so it has a jump start and then stops short before giving full engagement of the teeth.
All of this adds up to poor starter or ring gear life.
Force it out and see if you can see the problem.
Nearly all of the starter gears are too far back, away from the flywheel.
How a starter should work is the gear moves forward, engages the flywheel ring gear and then starts to turn.
Our's starts spinning before it engages the ring gear so it has a jump start and then stops short before giving full engagement of the teeth.
All of this adds up to poor starter or ring gear life.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Originally Posted by BanGnGearS
i haven't resolved the issue yet.. i will be working on the problem tomorrow.. one of the members here told me to order a 454 starter instead of shimming... it will fix the problem.. i got one from my parts dealer for 30 bucks... i'll post again tomorrow night b4 work.. hopefully she kicks over....
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 373
Likes: 1
From: Bayonne NJ
The big block starter doesn't fit.. The impeller shaft housing is to big to fit behind the flywheel shield. I started shimming the 350 starter an it did not work yet... Im goin to puts around with it some more tomorrow.. I turned the car over with the spark plugs out by putting jumper cables to the starter itself.. when i put the plugs back in it did not want to spin. It doesn't seem strong.. it will maybe spin one stroke before stopping... idk... more shims?????
