Serpentine conversion ?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 936
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From: Chicago Illinois
Serpentine conversion ?
I'm interested in retrofitting a serpentine setup in my '76 w/ PS & AC. Who has done this? I understand I would probably need a reverse flow pump, Stewart has a nice aluminum one for $90. Does anyone make a pulley for the old style (Saginaw?) PS pump? I'm sure the alternator pulleys are not hard to come by, I'd like to keep the old style alternator if possible. Anyone have any info on this? I've looked into the March setup, but it's like $500+, which is totally ridiculous.
Rob
Rob
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,078
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From: DFW TX
Cruise-In VII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '07
Re: Serpentine conversion ? (71,454,4spd)
Robzr,
Jim Pace performance makes a complete to convert over, but it pricey too.
I purchased most of my parts off of ebay. This is what I used.
85 Corvette A/C bracket and tensioner- $20 - 25
87 Air Compressor- Auto Zone $99.00
88 Corvette water pump - $25
89 Corvette Power steering pump and bracket $20
88 pulleys $5 each
90 Chevy Truch 100amp Alter. Auto Zone - $70.
Custom Power steering hoses - $15.
Altern. bracket S & P Polished Alum. $40.
85" belt $15
It all runs pretty sweet and easily revs to 6000 without a problem. The key thing to remember is get the water pump bolts/studs from whomever you buy the water pump from. They are hard to find and are expensive.
Good Luck
Jim Pace performance makes a complete to convert over, but it pricey too.
I purchased most of my parts off of ebay. This is what I used.
85 Corvette A/C bracket and tensioner- $20 - 25
87 Air Compressor- Auto Zone $99.00
88 Corvette water pump - $25
89 Corvette Power steering pump and bracket $20
88 pulleys $5 each
90 Chevy Truch 100amp Alter. Auto Zone - $70.
Custom Power steering hoses - $15.
Altern. bracket S & P Polished Alum. $40.
85" belt $15
It all runs pretty sweet and easily revs to 6000 without a problem. The key thing to remember is get the water pump bolts/studs from whomever you buy the water pump from. They are hard to find and are expensive.
Good Luck
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 936
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Illinois
Re: Serpentine conversion ? (Budman78)
Thanks for the info! A few questions - where did you get the Power steering hoses? How did you determine the necessary belt length? What pulleys did you need from the 88? (Crank/fan?) Are 85-89 vette serpentine parts all the same?
Later
Rob
Later
Rob
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 936
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Illinois
Re: Serpentine conversion ? (Budman78)
A couple more questions. Is this a 6 rib system?
I understand the new PS pump is also a Saginaw. Is it the same Saginaw pump as stock? Can the stock brackets be maintained?
Do you run an idler pulley and a tensioner pulley? Do they both mount off the AC bracket?
Do you know if the old style Alternator can be used with a new pulley?
Thanks
Rob - BTW I understand this setup was used on 1985-1991 Vettes.
I understand the new PS pump is also a Saginaw. Is it the same Saginaw pump as stock? Can the stock brackets be maintained?
Do you run an idler pulley and a tensioner pulley? Do they both mount off the AC bracket?
Do you know if the old style Alternator can be used with a new pulley?
Thanks
Rob - BTW I understand this setup was used on 1985-1991 Vettes.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
Re: Serpentine conversion ? (robzr)
I presume all chebby v8 systems are the wide system...I never counted the ribs ....
anyway, I used a conglomeration of '87 and '88 vette parts, pump, a/c compressor/mounting, '87 vette p/s pump and stock style '72 vett alternator....
it all fits wonderfully, pully and spacers are no sweat on alt...
pump is a changeout, as is the crank pulley...the only thing is with the Breathless a/p eliminator kit, I drilled sever holes in the bracket and did a shorter belt so the alt was more vertical....
other than that, I recommend the '88 up style compressor as that R4 has the worst rep of any compressor....
I did my a/c with R134 today with top up and 100f heat with hi humidity...it was marginal with 2 people in the car I admit, but mostly it's ok....
I need to adjust my POA valve too....
GENE :eek: :cool:
anyway, I used a conglomeration of '87 and '88 vette parts, pump, a/c compressor/mounting, '87 vette p/s pump and stock style '72 vett alternator....
it all fits wonderfully, pully and spacers are no sweat on alt...
pump is a changeout, as is the crank pulley...the only thing is with the Breathless a/p eliminator kit, I drilled sever holes in the bracket and did a shorter belt so the alt was more vertical....
other than that, I recommend the '88 up style compressor as that R4 has the worst rep of any compressor....
I did my a/c with R134 today with top up and 100f heat with hi humidity...it was marginal with 2 people in the car I admit, but mostly it's ok....
I need to adjust my POA valve too....
GENE :eek: :cool:
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 936
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Illinois
Re: Serpentine conversion ? (mrvette)
Hi Gene! So it looks like I need to get a new AC compressor / bracket (which also holds the idler/tensioner?). That's fine because I never remounted my AC with headers, so that solves that problem too.
I'm going to go with the Stewart stage 1 vette reverse flow pump, so I'll need a pulley for that. That seems easy enough to find, as does a crank pulley.
I found a serpentine alternator pulley for $40 (www.hotrodsuperstore.com), so it looks like I can use my stock alternator & brackets with that pulley. What is the Breathless A/P eliminator?
So as far as the PS goes, I'll need brackets/bolts, pump and pulley?
Rob
I'm going to go with the Stewart stage 1 vette reverse flow pump, so I'll need a pulley for that. That seems easy enough to find, as does a crank pulley.
I found a serpentine alternator pulley for $40 (www.hotrodsuperstore.com), so it looks like I can use my stock alternator & brackets with that pulley. What is the Breathless A/P eliminator?
So as far as the PS goes, I'll need brackets/bolts, pump and pulley?
Rob
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,078
Likes: 7
From: DFW TX
Cruise-In VII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '07
Re: Serpentine conversion ? (robzr)
It all depends, if you want to upgrade to the newer a/c compressor than the 89 and up will be a good choose. Pretty much all the pulleys are the same in size and grooze. As far as power steering hose, just bring your two hoses to the hydraulic hose fab shop and they will splice them together. You will only need one hose built. The other is a part store fab.
I'm including some ebay links of parts you can use. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...item=594315753 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...item=594316137 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...item=594299583
How this will help.
[Modified by Budman78, 4:38 PM 8/20/2001]
I'm including some ebay links of parts you can use. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...item=594315753 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...item=594316137 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cg...item=594299583
How this will help.
[Modified by Budman78, 4:38 PM 8/20/2001]
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Pro
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
From: The Villages FL
Re: Serpentine conversion ? (robzr)
We used a setup from the 89 Corvette. We swapped the PS unit for an 89 unit and added an after market fluid cooler. We used a GM 165 amp alternator, and the newer Nippocondensor AC compressor.
Regarding fans, we used the GM twin fan assembly from 90-92 Corvettes. Buy used at swap meets, replace the motors with new ones, and presto, better fans with more air movement than aftermarket products. Plus, parts at all your local Chevy dealers.
Spike
Regarding fans, we used the GM twin fan assembly from 90-92 Corvettes. Buy used at swap meets, replace the motors with new ones, and presto, better fans with more air movement than aftermarket products. Plus, parts at all your local Chevy dealers.
Spike
Pro
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 670
Likes: 0
From: Madison AL
Re: Serpentine conversion ? (robzr)
I have the March kit. It is expensive but it looks sweet and works great.
I noticed your sig, what is a T4 Turbo kit? Is it a turbo 400 shift kit? Or a turbo set up of some kind?
[Modified by 69Roadster, 7:52 PM 8/21/2001]
I noticed your sig, what is a T4 Turbo kit? Is it a turbo 400 shift kit? Or a turbo set up of some kind?
[Modified by 69Roadster, 7:52 PM 8/21/2001]
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 936
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Illinois
Re: Serpentine conversion ?
Budman - I spoke with Gary Gruhala about using a PS pump & remote resivor from a C4. He was under the impression that because the c4 uses true power rack & pinion steering, and the c3 has some sort of 'power-assisted' steering, that the new pump may not provide enough pressure. Have you had any problems with that? Does it require a different effort to turn the wheel?
spike - did you have any problems using the newer (88+) style AC compressor? Did you have to replace anything else in your AC system? What are you doing for the alternator bracket?
What did you guys do about the smog pump?
69roadster - the t4 kit is a turbo exhuast & intake setup for a T4 flanged turbocharger.
Rob
spike - did you have any problems using the newer (88+) style AC compressor? Did you have to replace anything else in your AC system? What are you doing for the alternator bracket?
What did you guys do about the smog pump?
69roadster - the t4 kit is a turbo exhuast & intake setup for a T4 flanged turbocharger.
Rob
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,273
Likes: 14
From: Austin TX
Re: Serpentine conversion ? (spikezz4)
Spike, I did a test fit with a 91 fan/shroud assembly on my 71 and it would not fit without major surgery to the shroud especially at the driver side upper A arm. How did you deal with this?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,078
Likes: 7
From: DFW TX
Cruise-In VII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '07
Re: Serpentine conversion ? (flynhi)
No problem with the power steering. Drives sweet in the turns. Trust me I worked with Jim Shea on the power steering issue before doing the conversion. He is the Sagnaw guru.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 625
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From: The Villages FL
Re: Serpentine conversion ? (robzr)
Robzr: Unfortunately, we are a year away from driving it, but we expect zero problems. Everything is pure GM parts. We thought we might use R-12, but may switch to R134 when the time comes. R-12 prices seem to be skyrocketing.
Flynhi: Fabrication. 4 bolts and that radiator slides in and out. Oh, I guess I should mention that the car has practically been custom built from the frame up. The 89 PS pump works, because we fabricated an early C4 rack & pinion assembly to work in place of the steering box.
Spike
Flynhi: Fabrication. 4 bolts and that radiator slides in and out. Oh, I guess I should mention that the car has practically been custom built from the frame up. The 89 PS pump works, because we fabricated an early C4 rack & pinion assembly to work in place of the steering box.
Spike
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 222
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From: Buenos Aires
Re: Serpentine conversion ? (robzr)
Rob:
I'm also planning to convert to serpentine, I contacted March and this is the reply I got:
"use March #20430 for serpentine for your corvette. You will have to
change your waterpump to a standard short water pump(non vette)."
Double check with them just in case, but it should be simpler than retrofitting and changing to a reverse flow wp.
Gary
I'm also planning to convert to serpentine, I contacted March and this is the reply I got:
"use March #20430 for serpentine for your corvette. You will have to
change your waterpump to a standard short water pump(non vette)."
Double check with them just in case, but it should be simpler than retrofitting and changing to a reverse flow wp.
Gary
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
Re: Serpentine conversion ? (robzr)
The pump pressures are very similar, and a serp pump will have no trouble with the early systems...I used a 3/8 brass plumbing compression union to mate up the p.s pressure hose, easy and quick, been on there for 5 years now...
I mounted the external fluid tank on the frame in the same position as stock C4...
as anything, depending on the drive choices made, it can vary, but with stock type serp setup, you need L98 stock aluminum water pump, C4 power steering pump as it's reverse rotation, I used the later foreign a/c compressor,...I thought it first appeared in '88 up...maybe it's '89, I forget...
at any rate it's NOT that POS R4 arrangement, it's an axial compressor...
custom a/c hoses needed, easy and cheap for a a/c hose fab shop...
the Breathless a/pump eliminator kit is in the back of most vette rags...small add....expensive for what it is, but not worth the time/effort/materials to design my own...couldn't do it for less than 60 bucks anyway....figgering the first shot won't work....;-(((
GENE
I mounted the external fluid tank on the frame in the same position as stock C4...
as anything, depending on the drive choices made, it can vary, but with stock type serp setup, you need L98 stock aluminum water pump, C4 power steering pump as it's reverse rotation, I used the later foreign a/c compressor,...I thought it first appeared in '88 up...maybe it's '89, I forget...
at any rate it's NOT that POS R4 arrangement, it's an axial compressor...
custom a/c hoses needed, easy and cheap for a a/c hose fab shop...
the Breathless a/pump eliminator kit is in the back of most vette rags...small add....expensive for what it is, but not worth the time/effort/materials to design my own...couldn't do it for less than 60 bucks anyway....figgering the first shot won't work....;-(((
GENE
