Total Seal Rings
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 7,739
Likes: 630
From: Unreconstructed, South Carolina
3 more important Q's:
- Were bores FRESHLY finish-honed according to manufacturers'/latest industry recommendations?
- Were fresh bores properly prepped & cleaned just prior to assembly?
- Mistakes do occur; any possibility any ring(s) installed upside-down?
Racer
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque NM
One has to assume or hope that the install was done correctly.... Lets suppose for this venue it was....Where would you start with the questions?....If install was done incorrectly it's just a shame and waste of components.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: Jesup Georgia
Everything on the engine was professionally done from machine work to assembly,all new parts,one piece rear main seal 350 40 over scat crank JE pistons New heads has 5 to 600 miles on it used the Total Seal quick seat also uses oil and smokes same builder just built a new engine that seated the rings in a 100 miles or less with a different brand ring.He says the rings are crappppppp
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,727
Likes: 38
From: Fremont CA
Here is a true story for you: a good friend of mine is a noteworthy USAC Midget series engine builder, he has been doing it since the Cosworth engines were running. He had a 2 liter Midget motor on his dyno, it had blow by and HP problems, he took the old set of rings out of the trash can and changed out the Total Seal "gapless" rings for the used ductile iron/moly rings from the trash can and immediatley the motor sealed up and gained 20+HP (not bad for a 2 liter motor.) He dosent use or reccomend Total Seal products and neither did a Perfect Circle engineer that I talked to one time at a PRI show (Perfect Circle supplied Total Seal with rings made to their specs I don't know if they still do.) I have to admit, I used a set in the 1980's but haven't since, I know people who are a LOT smarter than me and I trust their judgement. Good Luck.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque NM
Crapppp!!!!....well one thing it could be and thats he used to smooth a finish hone for the ring material. If thats the case I would use a light engine oil (5w-20w or a 10w) and drive the car easily for another 250 miles and see what happens...one thing be careful of engine temp with the light oil in. It can work just dont drive it hard and make sure it's warmed-up properly.
Larry
Larry
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
From: Jesup Georgia
shafrs3 I think all Total Seal Rings are gapless did you find anything to correct the problem?After having this problem myself I have done some research on the Camaro and Chevelle forum and it looks like people there also had problems with the rings.I talked to my engine builder at a local car show Sat.and he told me I would never be satisfied we might as well change the rings,sucks that is a lot of work for nothing.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque NM
Waste of time and materials for sure....thats why I would try the light oil. Some ring materials require a rougher crosshatch on the finish hone because of the hardfaced coating/molys they use, once it begins to seat it should go rather fast....In the early 70s my friend Bob had his 66GTO rebuilt and had just the same problem with ring seating it took almost 1000 miles to get it done...the more he drove the better it got. If your mechanic did the job correctly (except finish Hone) it will work.
One thing is to make sure your plugs dont get to oil fouled in the process...I would go to a hotter plug just in case. The lighter oil will gas wash off the cylinder better making the walls less lubricated allowing better chances on seating. There is one other method to try if this doesn't work. Send me a PM and I'll respond to it with that choice.
Larry
One thing is to make sure your plugs dont get to oil fouled in the process...I would go to a hotter plug just in case. The lighter oil will gas wash off the cylinder better making the walls less lubricated allowing better chances on seating.
There is one other method to try if this doesn't work. Send me a PM and I'll respond to it with that choice.Larry
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 7
From: Katy (Houston) TX
CI 7-8 Veteran
I think mine has gapless rings and are probably the Total Seal. I've had a pretty bad problem with a lot of oily mist coming from my breather. Could this be the culprit?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,441
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by CircleW-72
shafrs3 I think all Total Seal Rings are gapless did you find anything to correct the problem?After having this problem myself I have done some research on the Camaro and Chevelle forum and it looks like people there also had problems with the rings.I talked to my engine builder at a local car show Sat.and he told me I would never be satisfied we might as well change the rings,sucks that is a lot of work for nothing.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 7
From: Katy (Houston) TX
CI 7-8 Veteran
Originally Posted by VetteLS6
oily mist sounds like blow-by or internal pressure that isnt being evacuated properly....should be vented into base of intake through PVC.
Larry
Larry
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,505
Likes: 139
From: Butler Pa
Originally Posted by tshort
I've gone around in circles with this. First had typical breather and PVC. Then went to crankcase evacuation tubes. Got rid of those because it just wouldn't work with mufflers. Went to 2 breathers. Now back to one breather/1 PVC. I've been considering a catch can of some sorts but I don't think it works w/out a vacuum source and don't want to spend hundreds on that type of race setup.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,403
Likes: 95
Total seal has gaplas rings. All moly rings are made with nodular iron
and have a moly coating on the surface thats fairly soft and
will break in very fast and needs a cylinder that is not very rough.
The old nodular rings with the crome surface thats very hard needs
a very rough surface and are only needed if you are racing where
there are bad dust conditions. The cheap rebuilders rings are made
out of regular old iron, not very good by todays standards.
and have a moly coating on the surface thats fairly soft and
will break in very fast and needs a cylinder that is not very rough.
The old nodular rings with the crome surface thats very hard needs
a very rough surface and are only needed if you are racing where
there are bad dust conditions. The cheap rebuilders rings are made
out of regular old iron, not very good by todays standards.