Why does my new tranny have big problems shifting into first?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 372
Likes: 1
From: Ellicott City MD
Why does my new tranny have big problems shifting into first?
I installed a new Richmond 5 speed this winter along with a new clutch, throwout bearing, shifter, etc. Everything was working fine and it really loosened up after 1,000 miles. Now I'm at about 3,000 miles and I have a lot of trouble shifting into first after I'm stopped. Sometimes it will go, especially if I'm rolling a little, but sometimes the stick just won't budge upwards. I've found that if I shift from neutral to 3rd and then to 1st it will usually go in. Could something have happened to my syncros so soon? BTW - I adjusted the clutch tonight to ensure it was fully disengaging but I still have problems shifting into first. Help!!! :smash:
[Modified by fireball, 4:44 AM 8/22/2001]
[Modified by fireball, 4:44 AM 8/22/2001]
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,395
Likes: 6
From: Indiana
Re: Why does my new tranny have big problems shifting into first? (fireball)
I have had the same problem with mine in the past and even now occasionaly. I am someone that prefers that the clutch engages almost immediately as I begin to let the pedal out. With this tranny though, I have had to adjust the pedal so that the clutch disengages more than I like and requires more pedal engagment for shifting. It seems to make quite a bit of difference. I don't know about you, but it seems to get worse with temperature in mine. Because of this, I make my adjustments with the driveline hot.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 372
Likes: 1
From: Ellicott City MD
Re: Why does my new tranny have big problems shifting into first? (fireball)
When this condition occurs, the stick won't go up or down at all in the 1st / 2nd gate. Would a sycro just grind or does this sound like a shifter / linkage issue?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,663
Likes: 3
From: Palm Harbor FL
Re: Why does my new tranny have big problems shifting into first? (fireball)
If it's not grinding, my bet would be shifter/linkage related. It sounds like the shifter is binding up. If it was synchros, you would get grinding.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
From: Corvallis OR
Re: Why does my new tranny have big problems shifting into first? (fireball)
I had this problem in another car, turned out it was that the clutch pressure plate was damaged (broken springs), not disengaging all the way no matter how hard you mashed the pedal.
Jim-K
Jim-K
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,429
Likes: 14
From: CA
Re: Why does my new tranny have big problems shifting into first? (fireball)
Fireball - I would lean toward a linkage adjustment problem.
Sometimes if there is a misajustment or the shift assembly is loose, when you try to go into gear the shifter flexes and causes 2 gears in be selected at once. That would cause the problem you are having.
If you are getting grinding from the trans when you select 1st & if the grinding slows while you try to engage 1st - then it may be a syncro.
Sometimes if there is a misajustment or the shift assembly is loose, when you try to go into gear the shifter flexes and causes 2 gears in be selected at once. That would cause the problem you are having.
If you are getting grinding from the trans when you select 1st & if the grinding slows while you try to engage 1st - then it may be a syncro.
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Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 372
Likes: 1
From: Ellicott City MD
Re: Why does my new tranny have big problems shifting into first? (71coupe)
I don't get any grinding so I'll try following the procedure for adjusting the linkages again. BTW - it's a Hurst shifter. I heard people talking about Long but I had such good luck with the 4spd Hurst Competition Plus I wanted to try their 5spd shifter. Thanks.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 372
Likes: 1
From: Ellicott City MD
Re: Why does my new tranny have big problems shifting into first? (fireball)
Bad news, I talked to the guys at Richmond today and they told me to do this test: Start the car, set the emergency brake so the car won't roll, push the clutch in and hold it, shift into a forward gear, shift back into neutral (keep the clutch in), now slowly shift into reverse. If I hear grinding it means the input shaft is spinning. Guess what, I heard grinding.
So they tell me the possible problems are as follows:
1) the clutch isn't fully disengaging (I adjusted it last week so I don't think that's the problem unless it's a mechanical failure in the new clutch
2) the pilot bushing is binding because the tranny isn't perfectly aligned (I installed a needle bearing pilot but I suppose the same could be true)
3) the bellhousing isn't perfectly aligned
Looks like I'll be pulling the tranny out this weekend :smash:
Question - has anyone here successfully used a dial indicator to check the bellhousing alignment? The one I was using wasn't long enough to position it properly.
So they tell me the possible problems are as follows:
1) the clutch isn't fully disengaging (I adjusted it last week so I don't think that's the problem unless it's a mechanical failure in the new clutch
2) the pilot bushing is binding because the tranny isn't perfectly aligned (I installed a needle bearing pilot but I suppose the same could be true)
3) the bellhousing isn't perfectly aligned
Looks like I'll be pulling the tranny out this weekend :smash:
Question - has anyone here successfully used a dial indicator to check the bellhousing alignment? The one I was using wasn't long enough to position it properly.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,125
Likes: 9
From: Crescent City, CA
Re: Why does my new tranny have big problems shifting into first? (fireball)
You might try replacing the needle bearing with a bronze. If the trans or bellhousing are not perfect the bronze might give you enough slack to make it shift better.
Just my $0.02
Terry
Just my $0.02
Terry
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,395
Likes: 6
From: Indiana
Re: Why does my new tranny have big problems shifting into first? (fireball)
Question - has anyone here successfully used a dial indicator to check the bellhousing alignment? The one I was using wasn't long enough to position it properly.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 866
Likes: 1
From: Peabody,MA,USA
Re: Why does my new tranny have big problems shifting into first? (fireball)
I'll bet anything that it is the Centerforce clutch. The Centerforce clutch is a nice clutch but is very senitive to the clutch geometry. I also have a Centerforce dual friction clutch and a Lakewood blowshield. I had to replace my flywheel , which was still in spec, and the clutch ball to get the clutch working properly. I won't even get into the problems that I had with throwout bearings. I have never had any problems with a Hays clutch.
Race Director
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Re: Why does my new tranny have big problems shifting into first? (fireball)
You will need the magnetic base. I removed the post and installed a long bolt then mounted the dial indicator on this bolt. The clutch must come be removed, remove the plugs from the engine and I used a large mirror so I could turn the engine with a torque wrench on the bolt in the harmonic balancer while watching the dial indicator. Set it to zero on one side then slowly rotate taking readings at say 9 oclock 12, 3 and 6. Divide the reading in half to get the run out from center. If you get a max run out of say .006 this is really .003 runout. You will need offset dowels to rectify this problem. You should also clean the transmission mounting surface on the bell housing and take a reading off this surface also. Both are important.
Good luck
Norval
Good luck
Norval
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 8
From: San Jose California
Re: Why does my new tranny have big problems shifting into first? (fireball)
I checked my bellhousing alignment on 2 planes. 1) to make sure transmission was centered to flywheel, and 2) to make sure trans mounting surface was parallel to flywheel. The following was copied from an earlier post I made a little while ago. I hope this helps.
I placed a magnetic dial indicator base on the flywheel and the dial indicator tip against the inside lip of the circle that the front face of the trans fits in. I checked the measurement about every 45 degrees of rotation and several revolutions to make sure the numbers were consistent. My first measurements worried me. I had snugged up all the mounting bolts, but not to torque specs. They were off by over 5/1000th's if memory serves. Once properly torqued, they were within about 1/1000th.
By rotating the dial indicator 90 degrees and swinging it a bit further out, I was able to measure the distance of the flywheel to the mating surface of the scatter shield at roughly the same points of rotation.
Chuck
I placed a magnetic dial indicator base on the flywheel and the dial indicator tip against the inside lip of the circle that the front face of the trans fits in. I checked the measurement about every 45 degrees of rotation and several revolutions to make sure the numbers were consistent. My first measurements worried me. I had snugged up all the mounting bolts, but not to torque specs. They were off by over 5/1000th's if memory serves. Once properly torqued, they were within about 1/1000th.
By rotating the dial indicator 90 degrees and swinging it a bit further out, I was able to measure the distance of the flywheel to the mating surface of the scatter shield at roughly the same points of rotation.
Chuck
