Paint Decision
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
From: Naples FL
Paint Decision
Going to repaint my Black 79. Going to go black again, but would like some input or (possibly pictures) on types of paint that other Forum members have used.
Some of my decisions are:
Single stage or color coat/clear coat?
Also Urethane vs. Acrylic Urethane?
Also will the bumper covers need a special paint or additive because they are so flexible?
Also will a silver base coat under the black bring any luster to the paint job?
Some of my decisions are:
Single stage or color coat/clear coat?
Also Urethane vs. Acrylic Urethane?
Also will the bumper covers need a special paint or additive because they are so flexible?
Also will a silver base coat under the black bring any luster to the paint job?
Racer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: Partlow VA
PPG two stage, base coat, clear coat, urethane . They have plenty of choices in black. Ask the dealer about correct primer color for the best finished product. PPG will work on the bumbers without any additives.
Last edited by Vettkeeper; May 2, 2006 at 10:58 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
From: Naples FL
Thank you both for your advise. I've been told before to use single stage for non-metalics. I just wanted to get the ultimate gloss finish, thats why I asked about the 2 stage. I know Acrylic Urethane is a much softer paint and more flexible (for the bumper covers), but is it too soft a paint for durability on the car itself?
Paul
Paul
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,036
Likes: 2
From: Huntingburg Indiana
Acrylic urethane is not a soft paint. I have sprayed a lot of ppg concept (urethane) and it gets very hard. If you spray urethane and have some left over, pour it back in the mixing cup. Set it aside for a few months. After it is fully cured it will be hard as a rock. Clear will do the same thing because it is a catalyzed urethane also.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,107
Likes: 14
From: Lancaster PA
I would go with BC/CC as it will be easier to maintain and the clearcoat will offer more UV light protection. I prefer Dupont products and they offer factory packaged black basecoat that is jet black. Flex additive in the bumpers will enhance durability but is not absolutely nessessary. I would use the 72500S Premier clearcoat which is very easy to spray and lays down with virtually no orange peel which makes it very easy to buff. I would also activate the basecoat which strengthens the system considerably.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
From: Naples FL
Bondoboy,
I thought that Acrylic urethane was softer then Polyurethane (also called just urethane), thats why I had that question. I was also informed that Acrylic urethane is more forgiving and can be lightly sanded and rubbed out. The difference between the two is a bit over my head, so I value your opinion. I haven't painted in at least 12 years so I will have someone else shoot the car. When I learned body work and painting, Imron was just comming to market (late 70's). A lot has changed since then and being out of body work over this many years, I'm certainly no expert. Please tell me what you would suggest for a non metalic black paint job on my vette. Thanks, Paul
PS. Some of my information comes from the Marine Industry regarding Acrylic and Poly urethanes. Boats certainly have to endure a bit more pounding on the painted surface then cars do. Maybe thats where the notion of Acrylic being softer comes in to play.
I thought that Acrylic urethane was softer then Polyurethane (also called just urethane), thats why I had that question. I was also informed that Acrylic urethane is more forgiving and can be lightly sanded and rubbed out. The difference between the two is a bit over my head, so I value your opinion. I haven't painted in at least 12 years so I will have someone else shoot the car. When I learned body work and painting, Imron was just comming to market (late 70's). A lot has changed since then and being out of body work over this many years, I'm certainly no expert. Please tell me what you would suggest for a non metalic black paint job on my vette. Thanks, Paul
PS. Some of my information comes from the Marine Industry regarding Acrylic and Poly urethanes. Boats certainly have to endure a bit more pounding on the painted surface then cars do. Maybe thats where the notion of Acrylic being softer comes in to play.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,944
Likes: 22
From: Yooperville MI
For top coats I would recommend PPG Deltron 2000 basecoat with PPG Concept DCU clear. These are acrylic urethane.
The basecoat does not require a flexible additive for the bumpers, but the clear does. Transtar makes a flexible bumper primer that is sandable to use on your bumpers after you strip them, provided they are paintable.
Silver under the black topcoat would have no benefit and would be a waste of money and material. Black is a high solids color, silver and gold basecolds are used under transparent paints. You may want to consider a black metallic for special effects. Toyota currently has a black metallic.
The basecoat does not require a flexible additive for the bumpers, but the clear does. Transtar makes a flexible bumper primer that is sandable to use on your bumpers after you strip them, provided they are paintable.
Silver under the black topcoat would have no benefit and would be a waste of money and material. Black is a high solids color, silver and gold basecolds are used under transparent paints. You may want to consider a black metallic for special effects. Toyota currently has a black metallic.
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Drifting
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,944
Likes: 22
From: Yooperville MI
Keep in mind, the most important aspect of the paint job as far as durability, life, and final appearance, lies in the prep work below the top coats. After the car is stripped, a high quality epoxy primer such as PPG DPLF has excellent adhesion and will seal any stray fiberglass strands that might pop through afterwards. Over that you can apply PPG K36 sandable primers for the block sanding. The DPLF can also be used as a sealer before the basecoat is applied and it's available in black. If you are working on a tight budget and have time constraints where the car might sit for a week between working on it during the primer stages, you can use Transtar epoxy primer, it's half the price and there are no recoat time constraints. Also PPG Kondar acrylic primer is cheaper for block sanding, and there are no recoat time constraints. One problem with some of the resin based paints is they must be recoated within "X" days, which makes it difficult to schedule for weekend warriors and makes for wasted material (translates to $$$).
Racer
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 424
Likes: 2
I'm far from a paint expert but I do have some experience. Remember the 80's Chrysler mini vans, also many other cars just, the mini vans were all over the place. Remember how the paint jobs failed, it was the clear coat. Many cars of that time had clear coat failures. Maybe they have solved this problem but the reason was very basic. Without a pigment in the paint there was no protection from UV. UV is the killer to finishs, that is why when you stain your deck, if you use Thompson water seal you have to do it every year, no pigment. I stained my deck driftwood gray 15 yrs ago and it still has good coverage. I believe in solid color paints. If your clear coat fails you still have to repaint the car.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 16,978
Likes: 7
From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
If you're using Urethane finishes, single or two stage, hope you have a self contained air supply to breathe, else make sure your life insurance policy is paid and up to date and a valid will is made.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 259
Likes: 45
From: Columbus Mn
I really liked the result I got with PPG Acrylic Laquer. I am experienced, but still learning how to paint. I've painted my wifes 79 Trans Am and my 75' K1500. My reasons for the Acrylic Laquer were that I could wet sand the paint so I got rid of any imperfections before clearing. I must be an idiot because I can't seem to spray paint without a run or getting some form of grit in the paint. I was convinced to use PPG Dau 75 Clear, but wouldn't use that again. When I sprayed the clear it ended up shooting little solid particles of clear all over the car. Something oviously went wrong. I won't use it again because it can't be wet sanded and buffed, only polished. Needless to say It came out great, but I have to redo the paint and the clear. After I sanded the clear and tryed to topcoat with more color prior to reclearing, it lifted the clear up just like as if I sprayed stripper on the car. Bummer. I tried to send a picture to http://www.tinypic.com/ I don't know if it worked. We will see. I haven't given up. I like to do things myself. It's better to try and fail then not to try at all.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 116
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From: Naples FL
Originally Posted by ahoover
Keep in mind, the most important aspect of the paint job as far as durability, life, and final appearance, lies in the prep work below the top coats. After the car is stripped, a high quality epoxy primer such as PPG DPLF has excellent adhesion and will seal any stray fiberglass strands that might pop through afterwards. Over that you can apply PPG K36 sandable primers for the block sanding. The DPLF can also be used as a sealer before the basecoat is applied and it's available in black. If you are working on a tight budget and have time constraints where the car might sit for a week between working on it during the primer stages, you can use Transtar epoxy primer, it's half the price and there are no recoat time constraints. Also PPG Kondar acrylic primer is cheaper for block sanding, and there are no recoat time constraints. One problem with some of the resin based paints is they must be recoated within "X" days, which makes it difficult to schedule for weekend warriors and makes for wasted material (translates to $$$).
Paul
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,107
Likes: 14
From: Lancaster PA
Originally Posted by ahoover
Also PPG Kondar acrylic primer is cheaper for block sanding, and there are no recoat time constraints. One problem with some of the resin based paints is they must be recoated within "X" days, which makes it difficult to schedule for weekend warriors and makes for wasted material (translates to $$$).
The Kondar primer is a lacquer primer and I would not use it under the modern BC/CC paint systems. Also the only part of the paint job that you would not sand is the basecoat and you would apply the clear the same day so I don't understand what you mean by wasted material.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,107
Likes: 14
From: Lancaster PA
Is the crazing in the paint or have you stripped it and the crazing shows marks in the fiberglass? If you have not stripped it I would recommend that you do. I would not put featherfill over existing paint. I like featherfill and some other polyester sprayable fillers. They are a great filler for blocking the waves out if you want to get that particular. If you use a sprayable polyester filler and finish sand with 180 -220 grit you can go right to urethane primer surfacer and skip the epoxy.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 624
Likes: 0
From: Marietta ga
I am learning a great deal from this post. I am planing on painting my car this commng winter and most of this is new to me. I worked a body shop for a while, but painting on fiberglass seems much more complicated than anything I have done before.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,107
Likes: 14
From: Lancaster PA
Originally Posted by wombvette
Feather Fill would be an absolute NO-NO on a 79. The 79 is all SMC type fiberglass and Feather Fill is polyester. NON COMPATABLE . That is, unless you want those big ole paint blisters.
Here is the PDS on Featherfill and Nason sprayable polyester filler. Both list SMC as a substrate.
I would not use either on top of paint but would use on bare glass.
http://www.performancecoatings.dupon...son/421-40.pdf
http://www.evercoat.com/imgs/pis/FEATHERFILLG2PIS.pdf