What are the symptoms of heat soak?
05-03-2006, 04:37 PM
#1
Racer
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What are the symptoms of heat soak?
Could somebody explain what symptoms a car will exhibit if it has starter heat soak. Will the car crank at all? How long does the starter have to cool before the engine will crank? Any other common traits?
Appreciate any info.
Appreciate any info.
05-03-2006, 05:18 PM
#2
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I had this on my '79 for a few years and finally corrected with a new mini-starter. I have not had one problem since. The mini-starter was only about $90. The symptoms for my heat soak problem were... If the car was running for more than 15-20 minutes and I shut the car off it would not start for about 15 minutes. If I tried to restart the car it sounded like the battery was very low charged and could hardly turn over. I tried the heat shield wrap that you can buy, but it didn't work. For my application, a new starter was the quickest route. Someone here on the forum suggested replacing the spring in the solenoid which probably would have worked but I'd had enough and decided on the new starter. Hope his info helps.
05-03-2006, 06:26 PM
#5
Race Director
The 79 I used to have exhibited the same conditions that you describe. I installed a new solenoid on the starter and it fixed all of my heat soak problems.
05-03-2006, 06:53 PM
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I have the same problem with my 74. It is almost embarassing at the gas station when I pull in and everyone turns to look at the car to see what is making all that noise then when I go to start it sounds like it is on it's last leg. Glad to read it is a common and how to fix.
You guys are awesome.
You guys are awesome.
Last edited by Terrordome; 05-04-2006 at 11:44 AM.
05-03-2006, 06:55 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by StickShiftCorvette
My heat soak experience is that the engine wouldn't crank at all. When it happened the amp gage pegged negative.
The mini-starter cured mine on both of my small blocks......
The mini-starter cured mine on both of my small blocks......
05-03-2006, 06:59 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Had the dreaded soak on my 77 with headers. Heat blanket didn't work. The NCRS board suggested cutting 1.5 coils off the soilinoid engage spring. Worked like a charm for me, and didn't cost a thing.
Eddie
Eddie
05-03-2006, 07:41 PM
#11
Melting Slicks
had the same prob on my 73, it's embarrassing to say the least, got a new starter and a starter shield(stainless) and never had that prob again.
05-03-2006, 08:38 PM
#12
Team Owner
OK, lets just say there are electrical folks who know what in hell if happening and those who beleive in 'heat soak'.....
first case, when I buy ANY used car, I find the battery cables and grounding from engine to frame,...rubber mounts ring a bell?? so therefore there needs be a heavy ground from BATTERY, like through the FRAME to engine on the negative side, and sure enough that heavy thick cable to the starter large stud comes right from the positive post....
you get a negative on your 'ampmeter' you got a large enough grounding problem through the frame....
so pull off the connectors, grind the metal clean, polish all the star washers, tighten tite as hell, and then cover with RTV rubber silocone sealant....water tight for damn near ever....
especially if you coat the bolt threads when hammering home into the frame...can't get in throug the threads then....
my car was fixed as so many others through the years/decades just eh same way....
GENE
first case, when I buy ANY used car, I find the battery cables and grounding from engine to frame,...rubber mounts ring a bell?? so therefore there needs be a heavy ground from BATTERY, like through the FRAME to engine on the negative side, and sure enough that heavy thick cable to the starter large stud comes right from the positive post....
you get a negative on your 'ampmeter' you got a large enough grounding problem through the frame....
so pull off the connectors, grind the metal clean, polish all the star washers, tighten tite as hell, and then cover with RTV rubber silocone sealant....water tight for damn near ever....
especially if you coat the bolt threads when hammering home into the frame...can't get in throug the threads then....
my car was fixed as so many others through the years/decades just eh same way....
GENE
05-03-2006, 08:47 PM
#13
Drifting
heat soak
Vette Rx,
I had a similar problem with the 308 V8 Holden engine in my Commodore. It's not dissimilar to a Chevy small block. I had just fitted a reconditioned engine to the car and took it for a drive. The timing must have been retarded and I got stuck in traffic at a stop light. Foolishly I shut it off ( to stop the heat rise ) and when the lights went green it would not start. After a few minutes, I remembered something I had read about pouring water on the starter. I pulled the line off the windscreen washer bottle and sprayed it on the starter for a minute or so. Then I hit the starter and it fired right up and I drove home.
I am not suggesting that this is any sort of a permanent cure but it should get you out of trouble in a pinch. The problem is the heat radiated off the block and the cast iron exhaust manifolds. Tubular headers will dissipate heat a lot quicker than cast iron manifolds but there is still the heat from the block. A heat shield around the solenoid is the cheapest cure, but carry a litre bottle of water and a few feet of plastic tubing with you just in case.
The Corvette has headers and I don't have a problem with it.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
I had a similar problem with the 308 V8 Holden engine in my Commodore. It's not dissimilar to a Chevy small block. I had just fitted a reconditioned engine to the car and took it for a drive. The timing must have been retarded and I got stuck in traffic at a stop light. Foolishly I shut it off ( to stop the heat rise ) and when the lights went green it would not start. After a few minutes, I remembered something I had read about pouring water on the starter. I pulled the line off the windscreen washer bottle and sprayed it on the starter for a minute or so. Then I hit the starter and it fired right up and I drove home.
I am not suggesting that this is any sort of a permanent cure but it should get you out of trouble in a pinch. The problem is the heat radiated off the block and the cast iron exhaust manifolds. Tubular headers will dissipate heat a lot quicker than cast iron manifolds but there is still the heat from the block. A heat shield around the solenoid is the cheapest cure, but carry a litre bottle of water and a few feet of plastic tubing with you just in case.
The Corvette has headers and I don't have a problem with it.
Regards from Down Under
aussiejohn
05-03-2006, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Vette Rx
so the engine will try to crank albeit very weakly?
Albeit may be an odd, archaic-sounding verbal flourish, but as a conjunction it has been flourishing since Chaucer's time. As you imply, it literally means 'all (completely, entirely) though it be'. The actual meaning of albeit is closer to 'even though or even if; although (it be)', and just like although, though, it is sometimes used to begin a clause: "He can ask for a loan, albeit I do not think he will get it." Here albeit implies an opposition or contrast, and yes, it is very similar to but.
However, the Albert Einstein quote shows the more common use of albeit in a concessive phrase," one that expresses some sort of conceding, yielding, or admitting. In this use albeit can mean 'conceding or admitting that; in spite of the fact that', and the word notwithstanding can sometimes be substituted.
In the word albeit, the verb "be" is the third person singular present subjunctive. (The corresponding indicative form would be "is.") In subjunctive constructions, the order of subject and verb is sometimes reversed: "Be it ever so humble...; Be it feast or famine..." (Patrick Henry's exclamation, "If this be treason, make the most of it," is an example of a subjunctive construction in which subject and verb are in the usual order.)
Historically, the adverb all has been used with the conjunctions if and though, and often the order was reversed, producing "all if, all though." The phrase "all though" was originally an emphatic form of though, which later became although. Sometimes the conjunction if or though was dropped if the verb was placed before the subject, leaving all as an apparent conjunction, in the sense of "even if, even though, although." So the phrase "al be it" meant 'although it be', which later became the one-word form albeit.
ahem...oh sorry...didnt know what that meant...had to look it up...and pick on the poster as I know him personally, and found it odd he used a word so exiguously heard in common speach.
05-04-2006, 07:38 AM
#15
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Tried to start my car last night after it had sat a day and cooled off. Car cranked strong and fired right up. Looks like I'll have to try some of these fixes with the starter since I think that's were my problem is.
05-04-2006, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by DollaGreen
hmm....
Albeit may be an odd, archaic-sounding verbal flourish, but as a conjunction it has been flourishing since Chaucer's time. As you imply, it literally means 'all (completely, entirely) though it be'. The actual meaning of albeit is closer to 'even though or even if; although (it be)', and just like although, though, it is sometimes used to begin a clause: "He can ask for a loan, albeit I do not think he will get it." Here albeit implies an opposition or contrast, and yes, it is very similar to but.
However, the Albert Einstein quote shows the more common use of albeit in a concessive phrase," one that expresses some sort of conceding, yielding, or admitting. In this use albeit can mean 'conceding or admitting that; in spite of the fact that', and the word notwithstanding can sometimes be substituted.
In the word albeit, the verb "be" is the third person singular present subjunctive. (The corresponding indicative form would be "is.") In subjunctive constructions, the order of subject and verb is sometimes reversed: "Be it ever so humble...; Be it feast or famine..." (Patrick Henry's exclamation, "If this be treason, make the most of it," is an example of a subjunctive construction in which subject and verb are in the usual order.)
Historically, the adverb all has been used with the conjunctions if and though, and often the order was reversed, producing "all if, all though." The phrase "all though" was originally an emphatic form of though, which later became although. Sometimes the conjunction if or though was dropped if the verb was placed before the subject, leaving all as an apparent conjunction, in the sense of "even if, even though, although." So the phrase "al be it" meant 'although it be', which later became the one-word form albeit.
ahem...oh sorry...didnt know what that meant...had to look it up...and pick on the poster as I know him personally, and found it odd he used a word so exiguously heard in common speach.
Albeit may be an odd, archaic-sounding verbal flourish, but as a conjunction it has been flourishing since Chaucer's time. As you imply, it literally means 'all (completely, entirely) though it be'. The actual meaning of albeit is closer to 'even though or even if; although (it be)', and just like although, though, it is sometimes used to begin a clause: "He can ask for a loan, albeit I do not think he will get it." Here albeit implies an opposition or contrast, and yes, it is very similar to but.
However, the Albert Einstein quote shows the more common use of albeit in a concessive phrase," one that expresses some sort of conceding, yielding, or admitting. In this use albeit can mean 'conceding or admitting that; in spite of the fact that', and the word notwithstanding can sometimes be substituted.
In the word albeit, the verb "be" is the third person singular present subjunctive. (The corresponding indicative form would be "is.") In subjunctive constructions, the order of subject and verb is sometimes reversed: "Be it ever so humble...; Be it feast or famine..." (Patrick Henry's exclamation, "If this be treason, make the most of it," is an example of a subjunctive construction in which subject and verb are in the usual order.)
Historically, the adverb all has been used with the conjunctions if and though, and often the order was reversed, producing "all if, all though." The phrase "all though" was originally an emphatic form of though, which later became although. Sometimes the conjunction if or though was dropped if the verb was placed before the subject, leaving all as an apparent conjunction, in the sense of "even if, even though, although." So the phrase "al be it" meant 'although it be', which later became the one-word form albeit.
ahem...oh sorry...didnt know what that meant...had to look it up...and pick on the poster as I know him personally, and found it odd he used a word so exiguously heard in common speach.
05-04-2006, 08:41 AM
#17
Originally Posted by Edzred72
Had the dreaded soak on my 77 with headers. Heat blanket didn't work. The NCRS board suggested cutting 1.5 coils off the soilinoid engage spring. Worked like a charm for me, and didn't cost a thing.
Eddie
Eddie
could someone please post directions on how to shorten that spring??? Much abliged...
05-05-2006, 04:03 AM
#19
Melting Slicks
My Vette would have heat soak after mutiple stops say {running errands} in the summer.It wouldnt crank at all...usually after 10-15 it would then fire up...I went out and bought a new starter..Its been OK since about a year and a half.
05-05-2006, 04:21 AM
#20
Senior Member since 1492
Originally Posted by DollaGreen
hmm....
Albeit may be an odd, archaic-sounding verbal flourish, but as a conjunction it has been flourishing since Chaucer's time. As you imply, it literally means 'all (completely, entirely) though it be'. The actual meaning of albeit is closer to 'even though or even if; although (it be)', and just like although, though, it is sometimes used to begin a clause: "He can ask for a loan, albeit I do not think he will get it." Here albeit implies an opposition or contrast, and yes, it is very similar to but.
However, the Albert Einstein quote shows the more common use of albeit in a concessive phrase," one that expresses some sort of conceding, yielding, or admitting. In this use albeit can mean 'conceding or admitting that; in spite of the fact that', and the word notwithstanding can sometimes be substituted.
In the word albeit, the verb "be" is the third person singular present subjunctive. (The corresponding indicative form would be "is.") In subjunctive constructions, the order of subject and verb is sometimes reversed: "Be it ever so humble...; Be it feast or famine..." (Patrick Henry's exclamation, "If this be treason, make the most of it," is an example of a subjunctive construction in which subject and verb are in the usual order.)
Historically, the adverb all has been used with the conjunctions if and though, and often the order was reversed, producing "all if, all though." The phrase "all though" was originally an emphatic form of though, which later became although. Sometimes the conjunction if or though was dropped if the verb was placed before the subject, leaving all as an apparent conjunction, in the sense of "even if, even though, although." So the phrase "al be it" meant 'although it be', which later became the one-word form albeit.
ahem...oh sorry...didnt know what that meant...had to look it up...and pick on the poster as I know him personally, and found it odd he used a word so exiguously heard in common speach.
Albeit may be an odd, archaic-sounding verbal flourish, but as a conjunction it has been flourishing since Chaucer's time. As you imply, it literally means 'all (completely, entirely) though it be'. The actual meaning of albeit is closer to 'even though or even if; although (it be)', and just like although, though, it is sometimes used to begin a clause: "He can ask for a loan, albeit I do not think he will get it." Here albeit implies an opposition or contrast, and yes, it is very similar to but.
However, the Albert Einstein quote shows the more common use of albeit in a concessive phrase," one that expresses some sort of conceding, yielding, or admitting. In this use albeit can mean 'conceding or admitting that; in spite of the fact that', and the word notwithstanding can sometimes be substituted.
In the word albeit, the verb "be" is the third person singular present subjunctive. (The corresponding indicative form would be "is.") In subjunctive constructions, the order of subject and verb is sometimes reversed: "Be it ever so humble...; Be it feast or famine..." (Patrick Henry's exclamation, "If this be treason, make the most of it," is an example of a subjunctive construction in which subject and verb are in the usual order.)
Historically, the adverb all has been used with the conjunctions if and though, and often the order was reversed, producing "all if, all though." The phrase "all though" was originally an emphatic form of though, which later became although. Sometimes the conjunction if or though was dropped if the verb was placed before the subject, leaving all as an apparent conjunction, in the sense of "even if, even though, although." So the phrase "al be it" meant 'although it be', which later became the one-word form albeit.
ahem...oh sorry...didnt know what that meant...had to look it up...and pick on the poster as I know him personally, and found it odd he used a word so exiguously heard in common speach.
Thanks Professor.
That was superkalifragilisticexpeealidosis!