Anyone running a ZZ383??
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
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From: League City Tx
Anyone running a ZZ383??
Looking for a new power plant for my 71'. Currently my car is completely stock aside from headers, 2 1/4" exhaust and flowmasters.I want a reliable street motor that has enough beans to go 11.50s. Car is an Th400 and will have a 3000-3200 converter and atleast 3.36 gears.
I know the ZZ383 is only 425hp advertised but I am thinking about buying just the shortblock and installing AFR 195s, a nice lil hyd roller, about .550 lift, 230/240 duration@.050 on a 110-112lsa. I think I will need about 500 crank HP or 400 rwhp to run mid 11s. I don't want it so radical that the vacuum stuff doesn't work or have overheating and hot start issues. I still want to run AC also. Been looking at builders and crate motors..still shopping around.
What are you performance minded fellas running for powerplants and drivetrains? What ETs?
I know classic vette guys don't normally run their cars at the strip but I am curious as to what these things will do. This should be interesting
I know the ZZ383 is only 425hp advertised but I am thinking about buying just the shortblock and installing AFR 195s, a nice lil hyd roller, about .550 lift, 230/240 duration@.050 on a 110-112lsa. I think I will need about 500 crank HP or 400 rwhp to run mid 11s. I don't want it so radical that the vacuum stuff doesn't work or have overheating and hot start issues. I still want to run AC also. Been looking at builders and crate motors..still shopping around.
What are you performance minded fellas running for powerplants and drivetrains? What ETs?
I know classic vette guys don't normally run their cars at the strip but I am curious as to what these things will do. This should be interesting
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2006
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to run 11.50s with a three speed auto I think you will need
more in the range of 4.11s to obtain your goal. the new C6 ZO6
with the 427 a 6 speed trans to work with good traction for street
tires runs low 12s high 11s and its not as heavy as a 71.
more in the range of 4.11s to obtain your goal. the new C6 ZO6
with the 427 a 6 speed trans to work with good traction for street
tires runs low 12s high 11s and its not as heavy as a 71.
Last edited by Little Mouse; May 19, 2006 at 01:44 PM.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
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From: League City Tx
ya it will probably take a little more gear then that. If I have to install gears I will go 3.55s or 3.70s. Normally with a good torquey motor and a loose converter, you can run the numbers with less gear. I have done it with several cars. I had a 78 TA with an old pontiac 400 that would run 12.0s-12.10s with 3.42 gears and a mild motor. The car had a 3200 converter and would 60' 1.60-1.62s.
I don't want to run too much gear(4.11) since its only a 3 spd and will get some freeway action.
I am hoping someone is running a ZZ383 as it comes from GM and see what they are doing. I am guessing 12.30-12.50s in a early C3 with an auto and converter.
I don't want to run too much gear(4.11) since its only a 3 spd and will get some freeway action.
I am hoping someone is running a ZZ383 as it comes from GM and see what they are doing. I am guessing 12.30-12.50s in a early C3 with an auto and converter.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
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From: League City Tx
Also that new Z06 thats running 11.60s-11.70s is doing it with 1.90 60's LOL. That sucker is going 123+ thru the traps. That car on slicks on a good track will go 11.20s@125 with 1.60 60's. Awesome machine.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
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From: Forked River NJ
I don't have a zz383 but I built a 383. The specifics are in my signature. I was running in the 12.7s at 110 with my old 350 and about 410 crank HP. The machine shop who did the machining on my motor has almost the exact combo running in a drag car. It is setup for racing and runs low 11 and a few very high 10s in a 2800 lb car. I should be in the mid 11s if I can get traction. I do have more gear than you but 11s should be in your ballpark. I'm figuring high 11s to be more realistic but with tuning and if I ever run some stickies mid 11s should be doable. I don't have it all sorted out yet and have not been to the strip but I can already tell this new motor has more than the old 350 did.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Albuquerque NM
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
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From: League City Tx
Gordon, you have an awesome setup in your car. I want to do something VERY similar to it. Did you dyno the motor before the install?? Who did your motor?? I am looking at builders/crate engines but..hard to find the combo I want for under $7500-8000. Plus with the ZZ383 its a roller block, 1 pc seal and its all new, not reman/rebuilt. But its only a cast crank and PM rods as opposed to forged steel. Don't think it will matter much for only 500 crank hp though. My LS1 is putting 550rwhp on cast pistons, cast crank and PM rods but those LS1s are freakin bullet proof.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
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From: League City Tx
Gordon, also I notice you are running a TKO 5spd which has a steep 1st gear that really helps. In my old experience though, autos put less HP to the wheels(especially TH400) but the way the stall converter multiplies the TQ, they tend to run quicker ETs(better 60's and definetly better 330's) but usually less MPH.. Unless the guy with the stick is dumping it from 5k rpms on slicks...lol
Sounds to me that your car is gonna haul ballz if it was going 110mph with the old motor..
Sounds to me that your car is gonna haul ballz if it was going 110mph with the old motor..
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,173
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From: Paducah Ky
Check out www.tandlengines.com. These guys just built me a 408 stroker and I was very impressed. These guys are right outside charlotte NC and build a lot of engines for various Nascar series as well as street rods. They built mine with complete forged assy, dart aluminum heads, airgap intake, modified 750 holley, petronics distributor, march pulley setup with alt, ps, and a/c and lots more for $7400 shipped. I am in charlotte now to see the Dyno run on my engine and go to the cup race. Very impressive and proffesional facilities and very nice people. Anyway, had the motor built for street use. I wanted a little lumpy idle but wanted vacumm accessories and a/c to work at idle. I saw this thing dyno 480 hp with alt, ps, ac, etc installed. Torque curve was pretty flat around 500 ft lbs.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Forked River NJ
I had a local machine shop that I have been using for years machine the block. He balanced everything also. I clearanced the block and rechecked all the clearances and then assembled it. The heads are only about 6k miles old so I just installed new springs and bolted them on. I have not dynoed it and it still needs some tuning. I have just gotten a wide band O2 sensor to aid in tuning it.
If you are drag racing than an auto is the way to go. Much more consistant. On the street I prefer to row my own gears. 1st gear is steep but when you shift at 65 to 7000 rpm I'm doing about 45 when I shift to 2nd. I like the gear setup.
The LS1 is a completly different motor and much stiffer on the bottom end. I just wanted to lower end so I did not have to worry about it coming apart. Probably overkill but there is always room for more HP this way.
gyopp Is your 408 a stroked 350 block or just a bored 400 block.
If you are drag racing than an auto is the way to go. Much more consistant. On the street I prefer to row my own gears. 1st gear is steep but when you shift at 65 to 7000 rpm I'm doing about 45 when I shift to 2nd. I like the gear setup.
The LS1 is a completly different motor and much stiffer on the bottom end. I just wanted to lower end so I did not have to worry about it coming apart. Probably overkill but there is always room for more HP this way.
gyopp Is your 408 a stroked 350 block or just a bored 400 block.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
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From: League City Tx
Originally Posted by gyopp
Check out www.tandlengines.com. These guys just built me a 408 stroker and I was very impressed. These guys are right outside charlotte NC and build a lot of engines for various Nascar series as well as street rods. They built mine with complete forged assy, dart aluminum heads, airgap intake, modified 750 holley, petronics distributor, march pulley setup with alt, ps, and a/c and lots more for $7400 shipped. I am in charlotte now to see the Dyno run on my engine and go to the cup race. Very impressive and proffesional facilities and very nice people. Anyway, had the motor built for street use. I wanted a little lumpy idle but wanted vacumm accessories and a/c to work at idle. I saw this thing dyno 480 hp with alt, ps, ac, etc installed. Torque curve was pretty flat around 500 ft lbs.
Man thats a really good price for a carb to pan, fully dyno tuned engine. I would imagine without the march pulley setup it would be around $6800 or so...very reasonable. I will call them. I have looked at their website and it didn't have too much on it but...
Does it come with any warranty?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,173
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From: Paducah Ky
gordonm, they said this is from a 350 block. I am not sure what the stroke is
ajrothm Yes, it has a one year warranty. I talked to Loyd(the owner ) about this and he told me that if it takes a year to build the car or month he doesnt care. Just call him when I was ready to start using the engine and they start the warranty then. They will ask you to send any parts that you may reuse or buy elsewhere so that these get installed for the dyno run. No test carb that gets pulled after the run.
They will run it with everything as it will run in the car from the plug wires to the water pump. They will video the run for you and welcome you to visit and watch. After watching this I felt they were not concerned at all about breaking the motor. This is the 408 engine they advertise on ebay with the accessories that I wanted and set up for my use.
ajrothm Yes, it has a one year warranty. I talked to Loyd(the owner ) about this and he told me that if it takes a year to build the car or month he doesnt care. Just call him when I was ready to start using the engine and they start the warranty then. They will ask you to send any parts that you may reuse or buy elsewhere so that these get installed for the dyno run. No test carb that gets pulled after the run.
They will run it with everything as it will run in the car from the plug wires to the water pump. They will video the run for you and welcome you to visit and watch. After watching this I felt they were not concerned at all about breaking the motor. This is the 408 engine they advertise on ebay with the accessories that I wanted and set up for my use.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 5
From: Paducah Ky
Check out this on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/408-C...QQcmdZViewItem
This is the base motor they built me. Pricing is as follows:
base engine $4395
hydraulic roller cam upgrade $389
alum water pump $99
chrome fuel pump $69
chrome ps pump $149
chrome alt $169
petronix distrib $199
AED 750 holley $439
flexplate $69
moroso wires & looms $99
march kit $840
march a/c comp $285
crate fee $65
my shipping $155 ( varies with location )
Loyd can get you anything you want but does not care if you want to buy something elsewhere and ship it to them. Thier prices looked reasonable enough that I would have been ashamed to buy somewhere else for them to install.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/408-C...QQcmdZViewItem
This is the base motor they built me. Pricing is as follows:
base engine $4395
hydraulic roller cam upgrade $389
alum water pump $99
chrome fuel pump $69
chrome ps pump $149
chrome alt $169
petronix distrib $199
AED 750 holley $439
flexplate $69
moroso wires & looms $99
march kit $840
march a/c comp $285
crate fee $65
my shipping $155 ( varies with location )
Loyd can get you anything you want but does not care if you want to buy something elsewhere and ship it to them. Thier prices looked reasonable enough that I would have been ashamed to buy somewhere else for them to install.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
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From: Forked River NJ
Originally Posted by ajrothm
Gordon, are you going to use a LM1 wideband from Innovate to tune it? If so I highly recommend it.. I have one on my turbo busa and it works very well.
gyopp- That would be a 4 inch stroke in a 350 block. That is a big stroke for a SB motor. The clearances are going to be extremly tight and you will be close to a water jacket after clearance grinding. They sound like they know what they are doing, but a small base circle cam would probably be needed as would some Hard Block in the lower part of the block.
I just looked at their ebay listing. If they can do al that for 4300 that is dirt cheap. I have way more than that in my motor and I assembled it.
Last edited by Gordonm; May 19, 2006 at 06:52 PM.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
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From: League City Tx
I will definetly be giving them a call. They have some really good prices. Sometimes you get what you pay for though... If I was to piece one together it would cost me more then they are selling that one for. I will definetly talk to them about a 383. I would think a 4" stroke would be hard on the bearings, not to mention grinding the F outta the block for clearance at the cylinders. Hell I don't know. But with a 1 yr anything goes warranty.. what do you have to lose? Beat the **** out of it the first year and if it holds up well, you know its a good one. They usually pop pretty quick if something is wrong.
Have they dynoed yours already?? which cam did you go with?
Have they dynoed yours already?? which cam did you go with?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 5
From: Paducah Ky
yes, those #s I posted were from my engine. If that run didn't hurt it I don't see how I can. I havn't seen a motor run under that kind of load for that amount of time anywhere other than boat engines, it was awsome and scary. I had thought about calling these guys but got wrapped up in another post about a failed 383 crate motor that had me scared to buy from the web. I saw a post a couple of months ago from someone that had bought from T&L and was very happy so I called them. As I said, thier operation is first class. The pics of thier shop that you see in the ebay add are exactly as it is. This is the cleanest machine shop I have ever seen, you could eat off the floor around the mills and lathes. Everyone has special jobs. The machinist do the machine work, the builders build engines, others do setup for dyno runs, etc. The same guy that assembled my motor was building a cup motor while I was there. I felt very good about buying from them after visiting thier shop. My car wont run for a couple of months so I cant tell you anything more but do a search of the archives and you should find the previous thread. I think his eng was a 383
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: State of Confusion
Originally Posted by ajrothm
Looking for a new power plant for my 71'. Currently my car is completely stock aside from headers, 2 1/4" exhaust and flowmasters.I want a reliable street motor that has enough beans to go 11.50s. Car is an Th400 and will have a 3000-3200 converter and atleast 3.36 gears.
What are you performance minded fellas running for powerplants and drivetrains? What ETs?
What are you performance minded fellas running for powerplants and drivetrains? What ETs?
similar-times from a "reliable street-motor" , through the pipes, with a 3000-stall converter and even 3.73 gears might-be asking too-much from a ZZ383 with a cam & heads.....
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,993
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From: League City Tx
Originally Posted by Glensgages
A buddy recently built an 11:1 383" for a friend, who stuffed it into an early-'80s Camaro that is caged & tubbed, with an 8"/4500 converter, THM400, 4.56:1 gears, and 30" x 12" slicks, and he's turning 11-fifties @ 116+ tax, trapping at 6800+ RPM, with open-pipes and a snorkle-scoop:
similar-times from a "reliable street-motor" , through the pipes, with a 3000-stall converter and even 3.73 gears might-be asking too-much from a ZZ383 with a cam & heads.....
similar-times from a "reliable street-motor" , through the pipes, with a 3000-stall converter and even 3.73 gears might-be asking too-much from a ZZ383 with a cam & heads.....
Maybe but I don't think so. I think that guy's early 80s camaro is a freakin TURD if it only runs 11.50s. Hell its basically a race car. That thing should be running 10.80s. Maybe he just has a mild 383, who knows but....
I have two buddy's with 383s, one is a 70 nova. 383, plain jane Dart iron eagles, small hyd roller, 3k stall and 3.73 gears and the car runs 11.50s@115 through 3" flowmaster exhaust.
The other is a 66 vette, its got a fuel injected 388", AFR 195s, solid roller, doug nash 4+1 tranny and a 3.08 posi and he has been 11.80s@114 on drag radials with 1.70 60's, not power shifting. Car makes 407 rwhp. His mph is a little low for the HP per weight but we chalk that up as slow shifting.
My last old car was a 78 trans am, mild hyd cammed 400 pontiac with 68' gto heads, mildly ported, 3k stall and 3.42 gears and that thing would go 12.0s all day long. Not to mention it weighed 3650lbs
I don't think a ZZ383 crate motor will come anywhere close to 11s as its shipped but with AFRs, good roller cam and tuning, I think it should do it no problem. Guess we'll eventually
