Buyers vs. Builders
Thread Starter
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Boston MA
Buyers vs. Builders
Hey everyone,
I've always loved cars, but am just getting into car shows and all the technical aspects of engines and everything that goes along with it...plan on rebuilding a vette in a few years. Anyway...went to a car show with my dad, and he seems interested in buying a Mustang. He wouldn't put any work into it, just buy it.
I'm curious to see how everyone feels about when someone who doesn't know much about cars and rebuilding/modifying one, but wants to have one buys a vette/mustang etc. I would think that people who have put countless hours and money into their car would look down on (for lack of a better phrase) someone who buys a car that someone else rebuilt. Any thoghts?
John
I've always loved cars, but am just getting into car shows and all the technical aspects of engines and everything that goes along with it...plan on rebuilding a vette in a few years. Anyway...went to a car show with my dad, and he seems interested in buying a Mustang. He wouldn't put any work into it, just buy it.
I'm curious to see how everyone feels about when someone who doesn't know much about cars and rebuilding/modifying one, but wants to have one buys a vette/mustang etc. I would think that people who have put countless hours and money into their car would look down on (for lack of a better phrase) someone who buys a car that someone else rebuilt. Any thoghts?
John
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 8,351
Likes: 75
From: Tampa Bay FL
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (C3Lover)
I'd say if he can afford to pay for the on-going maint and enjoys the car, then more power to him... I know alot of folks who buy newer cars for that reason. They don't turn wrenches so they don't buy older cars (read older vettes usually need more work to make/keep road-worthy). They prefer to enjoy the cars in a slightly different capacitiy; driving them more than waiting for repairs to be performed. So if somebody has the cash for a mint resto and just want to drive it and pay for occasional maintenance, at least they are enjoying the car. Many ways of enjoying the corvette hobby/experience. There are alot of vettes that just sit in collections though. That, I feel is a shame and waste of enjoyment but, again, if a collection is what they want and they can afford it... :cheers: :cheers:
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 8,351
Likes: 75
From: Tampa Bay FL
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (TedH)
I suppose some would say that I'm a collector. A rather small 'collection' of two vettes. I like having the choice... I would like having the choice even more if I had a cool '66 or '67 to make the decision(s) even more difficult... :D :D :D
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 962
Likes: 0
From: Carlisle PA
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (C3Lover)
Although I've "built" my car(s) the way I want them. I have no problem with a person who "buys" a car already done - up to a certain point. As long as they are honest as to who did the work.
I sold a person a 67 Pro Street Mustang (Ok, I sinned) that I had built along with the help of a couple of friends. After selling it to him, he started showing the car. I then started hearing back from various people that he was telling everyone he had built the car and it had a Roush(sp)? Nascar motor in it. Hmmm, the only thing Roush in the whole motor was a set of valve cover spacers.
I guess the only other instance is someone that builds the car by writing their signature on a check and giving it to a professional and then claiming they built it themselves when in fact they haven't even gotten their fingers dirty.
For me I guess it's just a question of representation.
I sold a person a 67 Pro Street Mustang (Ok, I sinned) that I had built along with the help of a couple of friends. After selling it to him, he started showing the car. I then started hearing back from various people that he was telling everyone he had built the car and it had a Roush(sp)? Nascar motor in it. Hmmm, the only thing Roush in the whole motor was a set of valve cover spacers.
I guess the only other instance is someone that builds the car by writing their signature on a check and giving it to a professional and then claiming they built it themselves when in fact they haven't even gotten their fingers dirty.
For me I guess it's just a question of representation.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 866
Likes: 1
From: Peabody,MA,USA
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (C3Lover)
Just because you can't cook doesn't mean you don't appreciate good food. The problem is that if you can't fix your Vette , then you are going to spend a lot of money.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
From: hamilton square NJ
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (C3Lover)
not much you can do about someone misrepresenting your car, unless you put a big stamp on it that says "built by: " into your block! see them misrepresent that! hehe :yesnod:
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,141
Likes: 1
From: McKinney Texas
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (xfactor974)
My dad always says-
"Just buy a car already done"
I always ask him why, and he says that you never get your money back out of a car that you build.
I just find it humorous that the younger people are the ones building a car (most of the time). The older people CAN build a car, and they have more money than us younger folks, but they still buy a built car. This should tell us something.
"Just buy a car already done"
I always ask him why, and he says that you never get your money back out of a car that you build.
I just find it humorous that the younger people are the ones building a car (most of the time). The older people CAN build a car, and they have more money than us younger folks, but they still buy a built car. This should tell us something.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 5,210
Likes: 104
From: Fort Worth TX
St. Jude Donor '06
Father & Son St. Jude Donor '09
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (C3Lover)
Although I have enormous respect for those who do it all themselves, I also appreciate those who just love their cars. The guy I bought my Corvette from was not a do-it yourselfer. And that was actually a good thing. He didn't drive it much and had his local mechanic complete all of the repairs as they were needed, hence they were done right. The car is still in excellent condition with very little rust on the frame and everything works. :D As we negotiated the selling price, I could tell that he loved the car as much as any do-it-yourselfer. :cry He had owned the car for almost 17 years and took very good care of it. :cool:
Another guy who lives up the street, an AA pilot, has a 79 that he's had since brand new. :yesnod: And he is not a do-it-yourselfer but he loves his car and probably won't ever sell it. He just paid quite a bit to get it street worthy again (it had been sitting for quite some time). Now he's trying to find someone to get his AC working. I told him I'm going to rebuild my AC myself over the next year and offered to work together on our cars and believe me, he wasn't interested. I think he'd rather cruise and drink beer. :cheers:
To each his own!!!! But I bow down to the true do-it-yourselfers. . . I hope to meet LARS someday!! I just hope I learn enough so people will can come to me for advice. :confused:
Another guy who lives up the street, an AA pilot, has a 79 that he's had since brand new. :yesnod: And he is not a do-it-yourselfer but he loves his car and probably won't ever sell it. He just paid quite a bit to get it street worthy again (it had been sitting for quite some time). Now he's trying to find someone to get his AC working. I told him I'm going to rebuild my AC myself over the next year and offered to work together on our cars and believe me, he wasn't interested. I think he'd rather cruise and drink beer. :cheers:
To each his own!!!! But I bow down to the true do-it-yourselfers. . . I hope to meet LARS someday!! I just hope I learn enough so people will can come to me for advice. :confused:
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Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,921
Likes: 2
From: York PA
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (C3Lover)
As long as they appreciate the car that is all that matters to me. I enjoy working on my car so that is why I do it (also I am cheap :yesnod: ) I can't stand people who buy a car park it in the garage and then forget about it, a car was built to be driven.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,456
Likes: 6
From: Spicewood, Texas, USA TX-Texas
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (C3Lover)
I would agree with Andy1983's dad: buy a car that has already been restored, because generally speaking, you cannot get restoration money out of a run of the mill Corvette immediately...it may take years for values to appreciate to where you can get out whole. When I say a "run-of-the-mill" Corvette, I mean nothing exceptional for Corvettes; say a base engine, low option coupe.
The caveat to this is: If you attempt to buy a restored car without knowing a LOT about original Corvettes, and without being able to evaluate the quality of a restoration, I would almost guarantee that you will overpay and maybe get a poor restoration as well. That is just the way of human nature.
If you restore a rare car, like a tripower big block convertible with AC, it is likely that you WILL get your money back, maybe even make money, because the restoration cost is a smaller percentage of the value. The downside is your initial outlay is much larger. Unfortunately, it costs about the same amount to restore a rare car as it does the more common car.
It also depends on where your interests are. In the cases above, I am speaking to NCRS quality restored cars. If you are interested in performance modified or customized Corvettes, then the problem becomes much more complex because the maximum value of the car will be set by what someone is willing to pay. If you are just as impressed with the car as the builder, and pay a lot of money to get in, chances are you will lose money on the deal unless there are others that are just as impressed with the car.
The caveat to this is: If you attempt to buy a restored car without knowing a LOT about original Corvettes, and without being able to evaluate the quality of a restoration, I would almost guarantee that you will overpay and maybe get a poor restoration as well. That is just the way of human nature.
If you restore a rare car, like a tripower big block convertible with AC, it is likely that you WILL get your money back, maybe even make money, because the restoration cost is a smaller percentage of the value. The downside is your initial outlay is much larger. Unfortunately, it costs about the same amount to restore a rare car as it does the more common car.
It also depends on where your interests are. In the cases above, I am speaking to NCRS quality restored cars. If you are interested in performance modified or customized Corvettes, then the problem becomes much more complex because the maximum value of the car will be set by what someone is willing to pay. If you are just as impressed with the car as the builder, and pay a lot of money to get in, chances are you will lose money on the deal unless there are others that are just as impressed with the car.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,215
Likes: 169
From: PA
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (Chuck Sangerhausen)
When I got my car it had a lot of work all ready done to it now it is my job to get it road ready. Some things I do and some things I send it out to do. But never do I tell any body that I do it all my self that is not right to do. There is nothing wrong with any body sending the car out to be done. You know the guy that send it out to be done works hard to make the money to pay for it so that is his achievement to make all that money. Some times I would like to have the talent to make the money then the knowledge to do the work my self.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 30,995
Likes: 98
From: Ontario
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (C3Lover)
A person's age can influence their answer to your question. When I bought my 1979 some 15 years ago it was in a sorry state after a hot-wired theft and a minor brush with a guard rail. I spent a number of years getting it up to a decent condition: crawling underneath, getting dirty, becoming friends with AC Delco, Eckler's, Mid-America, etc. Now with a lower back problem, I prefer to have others do the work. The Corvette season in Canada is so short that I now prefer to drive rather than build. I may sell this C3 in the spring to buy a low-mileage C4: a triple white 1993. That for driving comfort. My building days are over. I do not have the facilities, patience or physical abilities that I used to have. So my answer to your question is that of an economist: on one hand.....But there is no fake pride with my car. I built it and maintain it except for most repairs requiring specialized equipment. Just off now to get the Zaino removed....Cruise-day on Sunday .
.
Thread Starter
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Boston MA
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (C3Lover)
Thanks for the replies. I can see why someone would buy a car that's been fixed up and is ready to go. I guess I'm just looking for the pride and satisfaction (along with an awesome car) that comes with all the time, work, and money that goes into the finished product. Someday....hopefully.
John
John
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,395
Likes: 6
From: Indiana
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (70PurpleLS7)
I guess the only other instance is someone that builds the car by writing their signature on a check and giving it to a professional and then claiming they built it themselves when in fact they haven't even gotten their fingers dirty.
NOTE: My oppinion above applies to those that buy their car ONLY to use for a "trophy piece". Those that have thier cars restored or buy them already finished for their own enjoyment and love of cars are just as much of an asset to this hobby as those that do all of their own work.
Platinum Supporting Dealership
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 6,425
Likes: 1
From: Traveling the US
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (tsw71)
I guess the only other instance is someone that builds the car by writing their signature on a check and giving it to a professional and then claiming they built it themselves when in fact they haven't even gotten their fingers dirty.
I agree, but will also add that I not impressed even if when they don't claim to have done the work themselves. It always bothers me when I see those perfect Vettes in the magazines. A person with a large wallet buys a basket case, tows it to their favorite restoration shop, picks it up a year later, and begins the quest for Top flight status. I may be alone here, but I don't have a lot of respect for something like this. Now there are some things that even I won't do. Actually, only one. Body work is something that I leave to the professionals, or at least someone with more skill and patience than myself. I just can't understand how someone can have pride in something when the only skill that was used was the one needed to sign a check and the only shed blood was from a paper cut while tearing out that check. This is not to imply that "mr check signer" is somehow less of a enthusiast or less passionate for not doing his own work, but doesn't it take away from the significance of the accomplishment? A professionaly restored car should be perfect, but can it be compared to other cars that were restored without a staff of 10 full time employees? It's the people that do the countless hours of research and hands on work to end up with an almost perfect car that get my respect.
NOTE: My oppinion above applies to those that buy their car ONLY to use for a "trophy piece". Those that have thier cars restored or buy them already finished for their own enjoyment and love of cars are just as much of an asset to this hobby as those that do all of their own work.
I agree, but will also add that I not impressed even if when they don't claim to have done the work themselves. It always bothers me when I see those perfect Vettes in the magazines. A person with a large wallet buys a basket case, tows it to their favorite restoration shop, picks it up a year later, and begins the quest for Top flight status. I may be alone here, but I don't have a lot of respect for something like this. Now there are some things that even I won't do. Actually, only one. Body work is something that I leave to the professionals, or at least someone with more skill and patience than myself. I just can't understand how someone can have pride in something when the only skill that was used was the one needed to sign a check and the only shed blood was from a paper cut while tearing out that check. This is not to imply that "mr check signer" is somehow less of a enthusiast or less passionate for not doing his own work, but doesn't it take away from the significance of the accomplishment? A professionaly restored car should be perfect, but can it be compared to other cars that were restored without a staff of 10 full time employees? It's the people that do the countless hours of research and hands on work to end up with an almost perfect car that get my respect.
NOTE: My oppinion above applies to those that buy their car ONLY to use for a "trophy piece". Those that have thier cars restored or buy them already finished for their own enjoyment and love of cars are just as much of an asset to this hobby as those that do all of their own work.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,004
Likes: 16
From: Gainesville, Florida
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (Rhys)
Some people (like me) enjoy the process of building cars, period. We get enormous satisfication out of transforming a "lump of coal" into a "gem" or building a race car from the ground up. When its done (and perfect), we start looking for our next project. Sure, we like to drive nice cars but its not the same unless we are the one who made it all happen. More often than not, those type of people are the same way with their house, yard and other things that bring pride to them. There is something special about people that are DIYers especially the ones that have the bucks to hire someone to do the work for them but they still prefer and enjoy doing the work themselves.
On the other side, there are people that like to drive nice cars but have no desire or aptitude to build, tinker or actually comprehend how the machine works. Although I respect that because to each his own and some people just aren't cut out to build cars, they are not what I would call a real car enthusiast but more of a collector.
As to comment that its better to buy because you'll never get your money's worth out of doing the work yourself....WHO CARES!!! The majority of hot rodders and car enthusiasts could care less if they get their money back when they sell because the money they spend on their cars gives them enjoyment and happiness and that is PRICELESS!
If you are buying a Corvette purely as an investment or worried if you'll get your money back, you are definitely not a true enthusiast, you are a business person and a poor one at that because there are many better ways to make money.
Mark
On the other side, there are people that like to drive nice cars but have no desire or aptitude to build, tinker or actually comprehend how the machine works. Although I respect that because to each his own and some people just aren't cut out to build cars, they are not what I would call a real car enthusiast but more of a collector.
As to comment that its better to buy because you'll never get your money's worth out of doing the work yourself....WHO CARES!!! The majority of hot rodders and car enthusiasts could care less if they get their money back when they sell because the money they spend on their cars gives them enjoyment and happiness and that is PRICELESS!
If you are buying a Corvette purely as an investment or worried if you'll get your money back, you are definitely not a true enthusiast, you are a business person and a poor one at that because there are many better ways to make money.
Mark
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,603
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco, CA
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (mdsmith)
Much good advice here. I would say you rarely get your money out but you spend the money for the enjoyment of the car. The money is "what you pay" for the enjoyment. As others have said, this is, for most a hobby. I would say for as abn investment the money would be better spent on graduate school - a much better investment in most cases- and perhaps less frustrating- but not nearly as much fun.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 2,010
Likes: 3
From: Moon Twp. PA USA
Re: Buyers vs. Builders (R. Bruno)
I bought an old car because I enjoy working on them, even at my advanced age. Bought a fairly decent '76 with the intent to modify it. As you can see from my signature, I have done some work on it. BTW, to me, a Corvette is a sports car. That's how I want mine to run. It is not the fastest in the 1/4, or the best in Gymkhana car, but I am working towards a balanced street machine sports car.
I used to do a lot of work modifying my cars 20 years ago, but family stuff, job, etc. put a stop to that. Now that I have the time and resources, I can go back to doing it myself. Unfortunately, I don't know Jack about the new computer cars, so my daily drivers go to the shop for work. Who wants to work/maintain a Toyota Tacoma & Hyundai anyhow?
As for the AA pilot mentioned, I guess they are lazy. A USAir pilot I know does all his own work on his LT-1.
Body work is the only thing I will farm out. I just can not do it.
I used to do a lot of work modifying my cars 20 years ago, but family stuff, job, etc. put a stop to that. Now that I have the time and resources, I can go back to doing it myself. Unfortunately, I don't know Jack about the new computer cars, so my daily drivers go to the shop for work. Who wants to work/maintain a Toyota Tacoma & Hyundai anyhow?
As for the AA pilot mentioned, I guess they are lazy. A USAir pilot I know does all his own work on his LT-1.
Body work is the only thing I will farm out. I just can not do it.