Rebuild or crate???
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,028
Likes: 2
From: North NJ
Rebuild or crate???
After pulling my missmatch big block apart I'm at a point where I need to make a huge decision.
The block is a late 89 truck 454 with a vette 396/427 steel crank and original 427 worn cam. Internal components put it at 427 ci.
After pulling the original iron 427 heads I see that the pistons were bored .060 thousands over putting the displacement over 427. I need to replace all internals...crank, cam, lifters, pistons ect. Will need to replace valves, valve job, springs ect. Will need new intake, waterpump, oil pump, distributor and all bolts and gaskets.
Would it be cheaper and more benneficial to just get a crate engine?? and leave this block for my slow forged twin turbo project to be ready in 20 yrs and have fun with the crate??
Any good deals out there on a big block crate? Would like over 400hp.
D&J Machine & Performance Engines on ebay seem like they make a good deal 454 with 500hp for a decent price. Any feedback from you guys?
I can take a decent hit on my bank but would like to keep the budget under 5k if I can.
Any opinions? rebuild or crate?
Any good deals, need to make a decision very soon before I send my current block to the machine shop.
Thanks
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWA%3AIT
The block is a late 89 truck 454 with a vette 396/427 steel crank and original 427 worn cam. Internal components put it at 427 ci.
After pulling the original iron 427 heads I see that the pistons were bored .060 thousands over putting the displacement over 427. I need to replace all internals...crank, cam, lifters, pistons ect. Will need to replace valves, valve job, springs ect. Will need new intake, waterpump, oil pump, distributor and all bolts and gaskets.
Would it be cheaper and more benneficial to just get a crate engine?? and leave this block for my slow forged twin turbo project to be ready in 20 yrs and have fun with the crate??
Any good deals out there on a big block crate? Would like over 400hp.
D&J Machine & Performance Engines on ebay seem like they make a good deal 454 with 500hp for a decent price. Any feedback from you guys?
I can take a decent hit on my bank but would like to keep the budget under 5k if I can.
Any opinions? rebuild or crate?
Any good deals, need to make a decision very soon before I send my current block to the machine shop.
Thanks
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWA%3AIT
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 876
Likes: 1
From: Same as our leaders Out of my mind
Get your old block rebuilt close to home.
I also live in NJ and had previously purchased a "crate" engine on ebay from a builder in arizona. I thought I was getting a good deal. My car has spent more time in the shop than on the road. The motor was NFG. I had a hard time resolving the issue because of the distances involved. Stay close to home. If you want a local ebay seller, look up Victory engines, they are in the NJ - PA. area and their long blocks start $$$ below anything else on ebay. I have no personal experience with them, but if something should go wrong, they are nearby and you would be able to follow up more easily.
My .02
I also live in NJ and had previously purchased a "crate" engine on ebay from a builder in arizona. I thought I was getting a good deal. My car has spent more time in the shop than on the road. The motor was NFG. I had a hard time resolving the issue because of the distances involved. Stay close to home. If you want a local ebay seller, look up Victory engines, they are in the NJ - PA. area and their long blocks start $$$ below anything else on ebay. I have no personal experience with them, but if something should go wrong, they are nearby and you would be able to follow up more easily.
My .02
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 16,978
Likes: 7
From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
The block can't be bored safely over .060...scrap if it needs a bore.
Suggestion...get a 502 bare block and use your 3.76" stroke crank, big bore, short stroke, will make a hell of a screamer. That said, you can use your existing rods and JE makes pistons for this stroke, bore combo.
Suggestion...get a 502 bare block and use your 3.76" stroke crank, big bore, short stroke, will make a hell of a screamer. That said, you can use your existing rods and JE makes pistons for this stroke, bore combo.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 3
From: Burlington WI
Ebay???
How many ebay horror stories do we have to hear?
It's like buying shoes in a catalogue. The picture was really nice but when I got them they didnt fit....
http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/perfpartsjsp/home.jsp
I am happy with my crate motor. I have put over 15,000 miles on it so far.
It's like buying shoes in a catalogue. The picture was really nice but when I got them they didnt fit....
http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/perfpartsjsp/home.jsp
I am happy with my crate motor. I have put over 15,000 miles on it so far.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,028
Likes: 2
From: North NJ
OK OK, EBAY...what is that? no longer exists in my realm of choices.
Just looking for the best bang for my buck...
Where's the best place to look for bare blocks, engine parts, cranks, cams ect? Looking for a company that stands behind their product and doesn't make me sell my body to pay for parts. Although that could be fun.
Any brands worth recommending? Scat? Summit brand any good?
Any engine shops worth looking into around Jersey that you can personally vouch for? looking for advice in planning the rebuild and machining.
Appreciate the advice. This is my first engine rebuild on my own.
I'll buy you all some beers the first time it gets on the road...gotta get'r done...I'm thirsty
Just looking for the best bang for my buck...
Where's the best place to look for bare blocks, engine parts, cranks, cams ect? Looking for a company that stands behind their product and doesn't make me sell my body to pay for parts. Although that could be fun.
Any brands worth recommending? Scat? Summit brand any good?
Any engine shops worth looking into around Jersey that you can personally vouch for? looking for advice in planning the rebuild and machining.
Appreciate the advice. This is my first engine rebuild on my own.
I'll buy you all some beers the first time it gets on the road...gotta get'r done...I'm thirsty
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,029
Likes: 94
From: meraux LA
If you go with a crate motor get it direct from GM or one of there dealers. I wouldn't try to save a few $$ from ebay. stay local with your purchase and you will have a face to deal with if anything goes wrong. just my .02
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Originally Posted by crf311
If you go with a crate motor get it direct from GM or one of there dealers.
i agree how can you go wrong with GM crate motor....all the engineering is done by people who actually have to stand by the product and offer a warranty.....and its designed by engineers
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Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 16,978
Likes: 7
From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 124
From: Lubbock TX
The notion that it can't be bored more than .060 over is bunk. This is a big block we're talking about, not a 350. MOST big blocks can go .100 but you should have it sonic checked first. Crate engines are built for longevity, not peak performance. Decide which you want and go for it. Personally, I don't drop any engine in any of my rides that I didn't build myself.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,071
Likes: 0
From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by BadMojo
I am with the crate crowd on this one.
GM built and warrantied.
Guaranteed reliability. Not a shady eBay'er or possibly crooked machine shop.
GM built and warrantied.
Guaranteed reliability. Not a shady eBay'er or possibly crooked machine shop.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 16,978
Likes: 7
From: In Dreams There Is Truth Ohio
Originally Posted by L88Plus
The notion that it can't be bored more than .060 over is bunk. This is a big block we're talking about, not a 350. MOST big blocks can go .100 but you should have it sonic checked first.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 124
From: Lubbock TX
There are a lot of .100 over 454s running around, both street and strip. The -289 casting is the only one I've seen sonic consistently safe for .125 with .160 thick on the thrust side. Big block castings generally have plenty for 4.350, but have it sonic checked for safety. By the way, there are a lot of manufacturers that make .070 pistons if yours will hone to that dimension. I like the aftermarket stuff - my CNC Bowtie will have .285 thick cylinder walls after boring to 4.600. That ought to make for some seriously rigid cylinder walls 
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: NJ
Try the Engine Factory in Annandale NJ. I have no affiliation with them but have seen their operation and can say they are a quality orgaization. Call them and ask for Mike. If i had the money I would buy a crate from them but since I'm short on cash I'm piece mealing my buildup. In the long run I will most likely spend more money and time with a rebuild vs a crate.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,876
Likes: 1
From: Jersey Shore Exit 98
Originally Posted by fl_rider
How many ebay horror stories do we have to hear?
It's like buying shoes in a catalogue. The picture was really nice but when I got them they didnt fit....
http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/perfpartsjsp/home.jsp
I am happy with my crate motor. I have put over 15,000 miles on it so far.
It's like buying shoes in a catalogue. The picture was really nice but when I got them they didnt fit....
http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/perfpartsjsp/home.jsp
I am happy with my crate motor. I have put over 15,000 miles on it so far.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,028
Likes: 2
From: North NJ
Icanfixitforyou,
I'm located in northern jersey near Montclair and Newark.
Those Motown blocks are really nice, especially the 454 with the improved cooling flow...but I don't have the funds for that type of build-up at the moment.
Still inbetween build-up or crate.
Even though my heads are original 68 427 heads with todays technology they're probably going to be my weekest link if I do a build up and will be the most expensive parts. Just trying to figure out if parting it together will be more expesive then just a crate.
Anyone know what those zz454 GM crates go for? no listing on the GM website. They're all forged which is perfect with low compression but I'm afraid to see the price.
$25 would be nice.
I'm located in northern jersey near Montclair and Newark.
Those Motown blocks are really nice, especially the 454 with the improved cooling flow...but I don't have the funds for that type of build-up at the moment.
Still inbetween build-up or crate.
Even though my heads are original 68 427 heads with todays technology they're probably going to be my weekest link if I do a build up and will be the most expensive parts. Just trying to figure out if parting it together will be more expesive then just a crate.
Anyone know what those zz454 GM crates go for? no listing on the GM website. They're all forged which is perfect with low compression but I'm afraid to see the price.
$25 would be nice.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 616
Likes: 2
From: Sedalia MO
Originally Posted by L88Plus
The notion that it can't be bored more than .060 over is bunk. This is a big block we're talking about, not a 350. MOST big blocks can go .100 but you should have it sonic checked first. Crate engines are built for longevity, not peak performance. Decide which you want and go for it. Personally, I don't drop any engine in any of my rides that I didn't build myself.
Last edited by Jim78SA; Jul 18, 2006 at 10:43 AM.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,634
Likes: 4
From: Northern NJ
St. Jude Donor '04 & '05
Originally Posted by 68 NJConv 454
Icanfixitforyou,
I'm located in northern jersey near Montclair and Newark..........
I'm located in northern jersey near Montclair and Newark..........
Good Luck!
