Thanks guys!!!!
Any danger after cam breaking?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,282
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From: Lake Wylie, South Carolina
Any danger after cam breaking?
Does the danger still exist for wiping a lobe after a successfull cam break in even if you continue using higher zinc content oil? Was wandering this because I had a battery die on me last night while trying to crank a flooded engine. Turned out to be a bad o-ring on the needle and seat so I quit trying till I get a new one today.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: New York
I'm by no means an expert but I'm going through the same thing so I called comp n the tech. said If there is going to be a problem it will be during the initial break-in...after that you are in the clear....Also Castrol told me that as long as the cam is properly lubed the oil should not be a factor during cam n lifter break-in..they also stated that even though zinc n phosphorous levels have deminished they are still at levels that will provide ample engine protection.......Who knows...
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: New Cumberland PA
Things you probably alreday know. A lot of wear occurs when an engine is first fired up. New Parts are mating with other new parts for the first time. Break in additives help reduce rapid wear as these parts come to together. Cam lobe failure may not show up right away. It seems that those who wipe a lobe have an issue several thousand miles down the road. Manufactures know how to break an engine in. If not, they would be doing a lot of warranty work. As long as you followed customary procedures I would not be too concerned. I changed oil after about 10 miles on the engine. Cut the filter apart and looked at it to see if anything jumped out. I added another 8 ounces of the GM EOS and will change the oil after about 500 miles. I feel at that point the engine should be good to go and will run run regular dino oil for another 1000 miles. I am planning on switching to Moble 1 after that.
I had a 78 Chevy that had a wipe camafter about 50k miles. Not sure why?
I had a 78 Chevy that had a wipe camafter about 50k miles. Not sure why?
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
the cam break in period teaches the lifters to spin on the cam lobes....so as long as there are no other problems such as lifter bores that are screwed up, you may be ok....the failure shows up down the road because thats when the culmulative effect finally catches up....i say don't worry about and use a high zinc oil such as valvoline racing oil and forget about it, until a problem surfaces
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Orange County Ca
Personally, I'm totally confused. Seems like the whole issue traces back to Hot Rod magazine and Comp cams? It does appear that modern oils are reducing their zink contents to protect catalitic converters. Are oil companies adding other, non harmfull to cat converter, additives? I would think so. Is zink the best? Or is it just the cheapest? Or both? Do other additives work as well, but are more costly, so that the oil companies did not use them in the past?
Yes, it does appear that there are alot of cam failures recently. But is it totally because of the oil? There have been alot more radically ground, high spring pressue cams installed recently then ever before. Also, cam metal or heat treat quality could be suspect. Check out the Amsoil web site. They state that too much zink will cause heavy valve deposits. How much is too much? There was a previous thread that listed additive content of numerous oil brands. Obviously, they were all different. Were the low zink oils "bad". Or did they compensate with other additives? Common belief is that most aftermarket additives won't harm a engine, but where do you stop? Sounds like this issue will go on and on for along time. I'm confused.
Yes, it does appear that there are alot of cam failures recently. But is it totally because of the oil? There have been alot more radically ground, high spring pressue cams installed recently then ever before. Also, cam metal or heat treat quality could be suspect. Check out the Amsoil web site. They state that too much zink will cause heavy valve deposits. How much is too much? There was a previous thread that listed additive content of numerous oil brands. Obviously, they were all different. Were the low zink oils "bad". Or did they compensate with other additives? Common belief is that most aftermarket additives won't harm a engine, but where do you stop? Sounds like this issue will go on and on for along time. I'm confused.
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: King George VA
Originally Posted by glenkov48
Personally, I'm totally confused. Seems like the whole issue traces back to Hot Rod magazine and Comp cams? It does appear that modern oils are reducing their zink contents to protect catalitic converters. Are oil companies adding other, non harmfull to cat converter, additives? I would think so. Is zink the best? Or is it just the cheapest? Or both? Do other additives work as well, but are more costly, so that the oil companies did not use them in the past?
Though the new API SM/ILSAC GF-4 standards have higher performance standards than older standards, they actually severely restrict ZDDP additives (by limiting phosphorus to 0.08%). This was done at the behest of the automotive industry to help them meet EPA requirements, not protect the engine.
You can read the ILSAC GF-4 standards here:
http://www.ilma.org/resources/ilsac_finalstd011404.pdf
You can see the EPAs impact on the auto industry in this letter:
http://www.ilma.org/resources/gf4letter.pdf
And you can read the history, including the why the auto industry and the EPA wanted the new standard here:
http://www.northamericanlubricants.c...s/gf4specs.htm
Some oil companies have added other anti-wear additives to offset the loss of the ZDDP, but they aren't exactly forthright in what. I've read, but can't confirm that AMSOIL, particularly for the AMSOIL Series 2000 0w30, has raised the level of ester in their oils to help offset the loss of the ZDDP. This appears to have raised the cost as you suspected.
As an alternative, diesel oils do not have the same phophorus limitations of API SM automotive oils, and for those that desire to use a synthetic 5w30 with higher levels of anti-wear additives, I suggest the AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5w30 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil.
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Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
why be confused? go with a name brand oil and buy one for its intended purpose....for example i have a modified engine and use valvoline racing oil.....i let valvoline put in the right additives compared to me doing some mr jeykl and Dr hyde mixing of additives in my garage..
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,672
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From: New Cumberland PA
Originally Posted by bobs77vet
why be confused? go with a name brand oil and buy one for its intended purpose....for example i have a modified engine and use valvoline racing oil.....i let valvoline put in the right additives compared to me doing some mr jeykl and Dr hyde mixing of additives in my garage..
Last edited by mandm1200; Jul 21, 2006 at 01:24 PM.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: New York
Originally Posted by bobs77vet
why be confused? go with a name brand oil and buy one for its intended purpose....for example i have a modified engine and use valvoline racing oil.....i let valvoline put in the right additives compared to me doing some mr jeykl and Dr hyde mixing of additives in my garage..
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Monterey, CA
Originally Posted by mandm1200
I had a 78 Chevy that had a wipe camafter about 50k miles. Not sure why?
Race Director
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From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Originally Posted by mandm1200
Is that the oil Vavoline recommended? If not, then whats the difference with adding additives or guessing which oil to purchase? Either way its a crap shoot.
whats the difference, engineers with degrees are designing the oils as opposed to us looking at marketing hype and trying to make decisions.......so perhaps it is a crap shoot either way, but i like to find the oil closest to my intended use made by a name brand manufacturer and i purchase that. You can go crazy looking at this stuff trying to decide what is correct to buy...too much of this, too little of that, it will drive you nuts trying to figure out if its the right stuff or not
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: New Cumberland PA
Originally Posted by Me2
My parents had a 77 with a 305 that wiped a lobe after quite a few miles, fixed it, same thing happened after some time. Swapped in a 350 and never had to deal with it again. Was yours a 305? Seems a little fishy...
Bob:
I'm not saying the oil you choose is incorrect. Manufactures make oils for different applications. One is better for one application while another is better suited for another application. A slightly modified engine running 99%-100% of its time on the street might be better off with one of Valvoline's street oils. These large oil companies should have the knowledge to determine which of their products would work better for a street engine. Race engines under race conditions may only see several hunderd miles of use before being rebuilt or refreshed.
What oil is the best? What additives are the best? I wish I knew.
Race Director
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From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Originally Posted by mandm1200
........One is better for one application while another is better suited for another application. ...........
What oil is the best? What additives are the best? I wish I knew.
What oil is the best? What additives are the best? I wish I knew.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Orange County Ca
Originally Posted by bobs77vet
why be confused? go with a name brand oil and buy one for its intended purpose....for example i have a modified engine and use valvoline racing oil.....i let valvoline put in the right additives compared to me doing some mr jeykl and Dr hyde mixing of additives in my garage..
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
you know the bottom line is all you can do is as time allows....research stuff, think about it, have a healthy dose of skepticism and then make a decision and move on to the next choice..... right or wrong, i'm always telling my kids "its all about time" we just don't have the time to become experts in everything.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
check this out its what i use in the 10w 30 weight
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=50
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=50
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,135
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From: Dayton Oh
Bro's and Sis's, this debate will go on for centuries. Me thinks that if you change oil regularily (3K-4K) then this is not an issue. My opinion is that you should use a good oil (all name brands meet the API specs) and change/check regularily. Why spend good money if'n you don't got to?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,672
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From: New Cumberland PA
This type of thread comes up every couple of weeks. All the major oil companies sell the best oil, or at least that's what they advertise.
What I find ironic is that some of these same companies, including Valvoline, sell oil additives. If their oil is so great, why do they sell additives?
What I find ironic is that some of these same companies, including Valvoline, sell oil additives. If their oil is so great, why do they sell additives?