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Dart Pro1 230 ?

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Old Jul 29, 2006 | 12:44 AM
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Default Dart Pro1 230 ?

Anyone think these heads are too big for a SBC 396? Looking at using Comp XR276HR, & 10.0 - 10.5 CR. Airflow seems closer to AFR 210s. Unless I'm wrong AFR doesn't offer straight plugs & Hooker Supercomp Sidepipes say they won't work with angle plugs.
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Old Jul 29, 2006 | 01:00 AM
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You might want to look at the 215's for that cam and ci .
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Old Jul 29, 2006 | 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ratflinger
Anyone think these heads are too big for a SBC 396? Looking at using Comp XR276HR, & 10.0 - 10.5 CR. Airflow seems closer to AFR 210s. Unless I'm wrong AFR doesn't offer straight plugs & Hooker Supercomp Sidepipes say they won't work with angle plugs.
With the cam you picked not being a very high rpm cam I think
the 215 would be a better head for you, but you have plenty of
cubes its not like the 230 head would kill you down low very much.
If you think a 290 or higher duration cam is in the future cards go
for the 230.

Last edited by Little Mouse; Jul 29, 2006 at 02:02 AM.
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Old Jul 29, 2006 | 03:56 AM
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That is an awefully small cam for those heads. I ran an XR280R to 7400rpm with a 207cc head. The Dart 215s (as stated) may be a better idea.
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Old Jul 29, 2006 | 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ratflinger
Anyone think these heads are too big for a SBC 396? Looking at using Comp XR276HR, & 10.0 - 10.5 CR. Airflow seems closer to AFR 210s. Unless I'm wrong AFR doesn't offer straight plugs & Hooker Supercomp Sidepipes say they won't work with angle plugs.
Unless you have a M/21 with 3.08 rear gears why not go up into the
280s for duration with the 215 head. That cam is awful mild
for that big a motor. I had a 3800 pound pickup the motor was
a 350 with stock converter turbo 400 auto and 307 rear end ratio,
when I rebuilt the motor I used a crane flat tappit hydraulic with
270 intake duratiion, 280 on the exhaust, 112 LSA . with only a
350 and a 3800 pound vehicle I could not tell any loss of torque
down low over the factory milder cam and it ran better out on the freeway.
A 276 duration cam in a 396 sized motor in a 3000 to 3600 pound car. I think
you are going to mild on the cam. Just my 02

Last edited by Little Mouse; Jul 29, 2006 at 04:56 AM.
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Old Jul 29, 2006 | 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Little Mouse
Unless you have a M/21 with 3.08 rear gears why not go up into the
280s for duration with the 215 head. That cam is awful mild
for that big a motor. I had a 3800 pound pickup the motor was
a 350 with stock converter turbo 400 auto and 307 rear end ratio,
when I rebuilt the motor I used a crane flat tappit hydraulic with
270 intake duratiion, 280 on the exhaust, 112 LSA . with only a
350 and a 3800 pound vehicle I could not tell any loss of torque
down low over the factory milder cam and it ran better out on the freeway.
A 276 duration cam in a 396 sized motor in a 3000 to 3600 pound car. I think
you are going to mild on the cam. Just my 02
LM - Thanks for the input, it's always welcome. I'll be running a TH400 w/2500 TC & 3.55 gears. I am concerned about street manners as well as raw power. I will certainly have a look at your cam recomendations. The motor also get 1.6 rockers.

Last edited by ratflinger; Jul 29, 2006 at 11:13 AM.
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Old Jul 29, 2006 | 11:30 AM
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I have those heads on my 406 small block and my power is above 600 HP...

There's no such thing as a too big head... Bigger is better!!
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Old Jul 29, 2006 | 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by GrandSportC3
I have those heads on my 406 small block and my power is above 600 HP...

There's no such thing as a too big head... Bigger is better!!
I know Grandsport has a really fast car but I have to disagree. Bigger is NOT always better. You will sacrifice streetability with those heads on that engine. AFR 195 or 210 is the largest I would go with on your setup. You need port velocity to run well on the street and get good low end torque, performance and drivability. Huge ports are great if your mileage is put on 1/4 mile at a time at 7000 RPM and the rest of the engine, drivetrain and car is built to match the heads. If bigger was better they would only sell 572 big block 750 HP crate engines. A race car is totally different than a street car. If you are building a performance street car THOSE 230 PORT HEADS ARE TOO BIG!!!For a 396 with 10 to 1 and your cam selection. Glad you are putting them Comp Cams pro Magnum roller rockers you bought from me to good use but don't put them on 230 CC port heads. If you go with a REAL radical sollid roller cam, all heavy duty forged internals, a bump in compression, a huge single plane intake and a 900 or 1000 CFM carb those 230 heads are fine. Then you have a race car NOT a street car and your engine life expectancy and reliability will be drastically reduced. At that point you also need a beefier trans, New Tom's differential or tub it and go ford 9", carbon fiber half shafts, safety loops all around, Upgrade brakes, frame reenforcement and the list goes on and on. It depends on what you want and can afford, a drag race car, autocross, road race or performance street.

Last edited by 63mako; Jul 29, 2006 at 05:05 PM.
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Old Jul 29, 2006 | 05:10 PM
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I run the pro 1 230s on my 427 sb with no problems,plenty of low end, and run a 244@.50 620 lift cam still purrs in 5th gear 1400rpm.and run the angle plug heads with supercomps headers not sidepipes and are better than the old edels easy to change sparkplugs.
ps ; If I were you I'd get the next size down due to the rockers not lining up correctly because of the big intake ports,could correct if you bought the offset lifters and rockers.

Last edited by vetteaddic; Jul 29, 2006 at 05:15 PM.
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Old Jul 29, 2006 | 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 63mako
I know Grandsport has a really fast car but I have to disagree. Bigger is NOT always better. You will sacrifice streetability with those heads on that engine. AFR 195 or 210 is the largest I would go with on your setup.

Thanks Mako. I get the impression that I need about 30 more ci & a lot more cam to use the 230s. I really want a strong street machine, but I'm not building a race car for street use. So it looks like the 200s or 215s are the ticket, maybe with a little port work. I would like the AFR 210, but Hooker says their sidepipes don't work with angle plugs. Wife would perfer the underbody headers (she's afraid of buring her legs) but they sure look sweet. Maybe I ought to make her happy & use the money I save on the side pipes to buy the AFRs.
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Old Jul 29, 2006 | 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 63mako
I know Grandsport has a really fast car but I have to disagree. Bigger is NOT always better. You will sacrifice streetability with those heads on that engine. AFR 195 or 210 is the largest I would go with on your setup. You need port velocity to run well on the street and get good low end torque, performance and drivability. Huge ports are great if your mileage is put on 1/4 mile at a time at 7000 RPM and the rest of the engine, drivetrain and car is built to match the heads. If bigger was better they would only sell 572 big block 750 HP crate engines. A race car is totally different than a street car. If you are building a performance street car THOSE 230 PORT HEADS ARE TOO BIG!!!For a 396 with 10 to 1 and your cam selection. Glad you are putting them Comp Cams pro Magnum roller rockers you bought from me to good use but don't put them on 230 CC port heads. If you go with a REAL radical sollid roller cam, all heavy duty forged internals, a bump in compression, a huge single plane intake and a 900 or 1000 CFM carb those 230 heads are fine. Then you have a race car NOT a street car and your engine life expectancy and reliability will be drastically reduced. At that point you also need a beefier trans, New Tom's differential or tub it and go ford 9", carbon fiber half shafts, safety loops all around, Upgrade brakes, frame reenforcement and the list goes on and on. It depends on what you want and can afford, a drag race car, autocross, road race or performance street.
The only thing that you are sacrificing is gas mileage... If you have a Vette, gas mileage shoud not be a consideration anyways...
I had 215cc Dart heads on my old 383 with which I drove over 20k miles all around Florida. I had a nice sigle plane intake on that engine and a relatively mild cam and there were no issues with streetability and with my TKO overdrive transmission, I even got up to 17 mpg on the highway. 230 cc vs. 215 cc would not have made much difference but they have the potential to handle more power if you decide to step up. If you go with 195 cc heads, you will always be stuck at around 450 HP or less with pump gas compression. I always buy bigger when it comes to carb and heads. The engine can be tuned streetable with such setup even with a mild cam and it has the potential to give you a lot more power if you decide to step up your cam. Like I said, fuel economy is the only thing that you are sacrificing. My old 383 was extremely reliable on the street!!
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Old Jul 29, 2006 | 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ratflinger
Thanks Mako. I get the impression that I need about 30 more ci & a lot more cam to use the 230s. I really want a strong street machine, but I'm not building a race car for street use. So it looks like the 200s or 215s are the ticket, maybe with a little port work. I would like the AFR 210, but Hooker says their sidepipes don't work with angle plugs. Wife would perfer the underbody headers (she's afraid of buring her legs) but they sure look sweet. Maybe I ought to make her happy & use the money I save on the side pipes to buy the AFRs.
Or you can put these on your sidepipes. I can run an hour and set my hand on the shields.
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Old Jul 29, 2006 | 10:28 PM
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Mako, yeah your shields are really sweet. Where did you get them? Are your pipes brushed stainless or chrome?
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Old Jul 29, 2006 | 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ratflinger
Mako, yeah your shields are really sweet. Where did you get them? Are your pipes brushed stainless or chrome?
They are from cobra accessories. The pipes and headers are chrome. I have 3 battle scars from the pipes.

Last edited by 63mako; Jul 29, 2006 at 11:23 PM.
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Old Jul 30, 2006 | 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 63mako[IMG
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/63mako/CorvettePictures007-1.jpg[/IMG]
I tried to slip those shields into my truck when you wern't looking...
But they just wern't part of the deal.
Gott-a get me some-a-dem!!!!
Eddie
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