Intake manifold shoot out question?
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
It's all about money!
I'm lucky enough to live and work 10-15 minutes from the Sparks Nevada Summit Racing distribution center. So they have quite the speed shop store here. So on various projects i go down and buy 3 different vendors parts and take them home and look them over before installing what I think is the best.
When i pick out manifolds I include Edelbrock. They consistantly suck
Very poor casting quality and they require man hours of port matching die grinder work. So i look and take them back!
Just lay a FelPro gasket on the Edel intake and it doesn't even come close to matching. On the other hand Weiand, world products, Dart, Holley intakes that I have bought required very little time to match up.
Years ago I had a Edel VJ. Lot's of man hours and epoxing in "turtles" to get a balanced flow without excessive fuel drop out. It was just a poorly designed product.
You should not have to dork with a manifold. The VJ is at least a 15 year old design. The sad thing is they still use the same design.
I did RWHP on my old 355 ci Vette motor. Back to back testing and the Edelbrock "Performer" made significantly less HP than the stock aluminum 79 L-82 manifold.
Car rags sell out to the highest bidder
I'm lucky enough to live and work 10-15 minutes from the Sparks Nevada Summit Racing distribution center. So they have quite the speed shop store here. So on various projects i go down and buy 3 different vendors parts and take them home and look them over before installing what I think is the best.
When i pick out manifolds I include Edelbrock. They consistantly suck
Very poor casting quality and they require man hours of port matching die grinder work. So i look and take them back!Just lay a FelPro gasket on the Edel intake and it doesn't even come close to matching. On the other hand Weiand, world products, Dart, Holley intakes that I have bought required very little time to match up.
Years ago I had a Edel VJ. Lot's of man hours and epoxing in "turtles" to get a balanced flow without excessive fuel drop out. It was just a poorly designed product.
You should not have to dork with a manifold. The VJ is at least a 15 year old design. The sad thing is they still use the same design.
I did RWHP on my old 355 ci Vette motor. Back to back testing and the Edelbrock "Performer" made significantly less HP than the stock aluminum 79 L-82 manifold.
Car rags sell out to the highest bidder
Last edited by gkull; Aug 3, 2006 at 02:33 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 914
Likes: 14
From: Aberdeen, Scotland
Money ...
Money. Ever notice that RAG "Engine Masters"? It has alot of good info, but it must be supported by Comp Cams! Every article says how great their stuff it. Then the next will be on RHS, a Comp Cams comp I think ...
I would like to see shoot outs vs the old OEM stuff, with torque numbers and OEM stuff modified/ported to flow. I would be willing to bet some of us would stop spending our cash on the after the market. I am convinced much of the stuff is not up to what it claims. And some of our "favorite" rags don't help.
carbster
I would like to see shoot outs vs the old OEM stuff, with torque numbers and OEM stuff modified/ported to flow. I would be willing to bet some of us would stop spending our cash on the after the market. I am convinced much of the stuff is not up to what it claims. And some of our "favorite" rags don't help.
carbster
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 977
Likes: 1
From: wash. dc
Originally Posted by carbster09
Money. Ever notice that RAG "Engine Masters"? It has alot of good info, but it must be supported by Comp Cams! Every article says how great their stuff it. Then the next will be on RHS, a Comp Cams comp I think ...
I would like to see shoot outs vs the old OEM stuff, with torque numbers and OEM stuff modified/ported to flow. I would be willing to bet some of us would stop spending our cash on the after the market. I am convinced much of the stuff is not up to what it claims. And some of our "favorite" rags don't help.
carbster
I would like to see shoot outs vs the old OEM stuff, with torque numbers and OEM stuff modified/ported to flow. I would be willing to bet some of us would stop spending our cash on the after the market. I am convinced much of the stuff is not up to what it claims. And some of our "favorite" rags don't help.
carbster
Racer
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 491
Likes: 12
From: Los Altos Hills, CA
I agree with you guys. I have written to the car mags several times, but it falls on deaf ears. Dave Freiburger (editor of Hot Rod and Car Craft) actually wrote back to me once or twice saying he was also interested in getting some real head-to-head testing done, he even passed my letters on to Primedia.
I just don't understand why the hot rod rags are so afraid of stepping on their advertisers toes with an honest review. Look at "Road and Track" or "Car and Driver", they hold nothing back reviewing cars and they still manage to hang on to advertisers. "Grass Roots Motorsports" is another good example of a magazine that does their best to accurately review and compare products.
The aftermarket suppliers would really clean up their act if they had the hot rod mags doing objective reivews. And we, as the consumers, would greatly benefit.
I just don't understand why the hot rod rags are so afraid of stepping on their advertisers toes with an honest review. Look at "Road and Track" or "Car and Driver", they hold nothing back reviewing cars and they still manage to hang on to advertisers. "Grass Roots Motorsports" is another good example of a magazine that does their best to accurately review and compare products.
The aftermarket suppliers would really clean up their act if they had the hot rod mags doing objective reivews. And we, as the consumers, would greatly benefit.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,752
Likes: 4
From: Austin Texas
Originally Posted by Cris
I agree with you guys. I have written to the car mags several times, but it falls on deaf ears. Dave Freiburger (editor of Hot Rod and Car Craft) actually wrote back to me once or twice saying he was also interested in getting some real head-to-head testing done, he even passed my letters on to Primedia.
I just don't understand why the hot rod rags are so afraid of stepping on their advertisers toes with an honest review. Look at "Road and Track" or "Car and Driver", they hold nothing back reviewing cars and they still manage to hang on to advertisers. "Grass Roots Motorsports" is another good example of a magazine that does their best to accurately review and compare products.
The aftermarket suppliers would really clean up their act if they had the hot rod mags doing objective reivews. And we, as the consumers, would greatly benefit.
I just don't understand why the hot rod rags are so afraid of stepping on their advertisers toes with an honest review. Look at "Road and Track" or "Car and Driver", they hold nothing back reviewing cars and they still manage to hang on to advertisers. "Grass Roots Motorsports" is another good example of a magazine that does their best to accurately review and compare products.
The aftermarket suppliers would really clean up their act if they had the hot rod mags doing objective reivews. And we, as the consumers, would greatly benefit.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
From: North Texas
Well, they all advertise.....in the same magazines.
Heck, I've seen cam and carb shoot outs with different magazines.
It just seems pretty strange to me.
I say you pull them out of a box and then you can optimize the carb and timing accordingly for each unit.
Heck, I've seen cam and carb shoot outs with different magazines.
It just seems pretty strange to me.
I say you pull them out of a box and then you can optimize the carb and timing accordingly for each unit.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,659
Likes: 7
From: Katy (Houston) TX
CI 7-8 Veteran
Jim (427HotRod) has been wanting to do that at the CorvetteForum Cruise-In forever. We could do a bunch of swaps on a consistent 1/4mile car and get some REAL data. Intake swaps, carb swaps....heck, if we were prepared and wasn't too hot of a day a cam swap. We've been pushing Holley and Comp Cams to sponsor it but no luck so far.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,926
Likes: 739
From: Youngstown Ohio
Originally Posted by 1970-Bronze
Why don't you even see intake manifold shoot outs between different manufacturer?
I always see them with Edelbrock units.
I always see them with Edelbrock units.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,752
Likes: 4
From: Austin Texas
Originally Posted by tshort
Jim (427HotRod) has been wanting to do that at the CorvetteForum Cruise-In forever. We could do a bunch of swaps on a consistent 1/4mile car and get some REAL data. Intake swaps, carb swaps....heck, if we were prepared and wasn't too hot of a day a cam swap. We've been pushing Holley and Comp Cams to sponsor it but no luck so far.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
From: North Texas
Originally Posted by C3 Stroker
You ever notice they do the same when it comes to carbs, too?......you never see a Holley vs. Demon vs. Edelbrock shoot out either.
Not true. I've seen a couple of time in Hot Rod where they started with the Edelbrock and switched to a Demon for the last run which always made more power......
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
I can skew the results of any test just like the car rags. If you don't optimize each tune your never getting the most of of it.
You can't lump all carbs of the same CFM rating into a class and say that this one comes out on top. Demons are rated low on CFM just so they can say that their 750 can beat all the others dyno numbers. All you have to do is buy an aftermarket probuilt holley and see which carb really runs the best in the real world and puts out the best numbers.
I ran my 750 Edelbrock carb for 10 years on my hot rodded Vette. But I understood how it worked and put alot of time in on a rear wheel dyno with exhaust sniffers. Everything on it, down to the 1/2 wood thermal spacer above the single plane intake was optimized for the best fuel curve possible. I had freeway mileage of over 21 mpg on long trips with th350 and 3.55 rear gears driving 85 mph for hours on end.
You can't lump all carbs of the same CFM rating into a class and say that this one comes out on top. Demons are rated low on CFM just so they can say that their 750 can beat all the others dyno numbers. All you have to do is buy an aftermarket probuilt holley and see which carb really runs the best in the real world and puts out the best numbers.
I ran my 750 Edelbrock carb for 10 years on my hot rodded Vette. But I understood how it worked and put alot of time in on a rear wheel dyno with exhaust sniffers. Everything on it, down to the 1/2 wood thermal spacer above the single plane intake was optimized for the best fuel curve possible. I had freeway mileage of over 21 mpg on long trips with th350 and 3.55 rear gears driving 85 mph for hours on end.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 899
Likes: 1
From: Kansas
here's my test, had a torker 2 on the old 350 edel rpm heads, hyd roller
520 540 lift,felt like it needed more air ,bought the Weind team g intake ran a little better,so then swap out to a 427sb ,same team g intake heard about this manifold shootout in one of the mags and one of the stroker books had the same article where the Professinal products single plane manifold whipped all the others,so I bought one and swapped out ,and the motor felt so much better,could have been because of the higher rise,but it sure freed up some more ponys,
around 30 hp ,but youll need a bigger hood
520 540 lift,felt like it needed more air ,bought the Weind team g intake ran a little better,so then swap out to a 427sb ,same team g intake heard about this manifold shootout in one of the mags and one of the stroker books had the same article where the Professinal products single plane manifold whipped all the others,so I bought one and swapped out ,and the motor felt so much better,could have been because of the higher rise,but it sure freed up some more ponys,
around 30 hp ,but youll need a bigger hood
