Edzred72

It seems that everytime this solid vrs hydraulic cam discussion comes up no one ever mentions the quality and expense of the OTHER COMPONENTS in the motor that will allow you to rev to 7000rpm. You might get there with a great solid cam...but will your rods, pistons, crank etc allow you to???? All those HAVE TO be upgraded also!!!!!!
Eddie

63mako

And with 7500 RPM, High Horsepower power shifts you open a whole new can of worms. Clutch, trans, u-joints, rear end, half shafts, safety loops and you better be able to stop it. It all depends on how deep your pockets are and the things I touched on in previous posts. A lot of guys run their cars to 7500 RPM. More power to them. My pockets aren't deep enough to do it. Gkull just blew up his new, solid roller 427, Broke a forged crank in half. It was an expensive motor with all top shelf components, but it was run to 7500 RPM on a regular basis. The longer stroke increases the piston speeds. Multiply rpm with faster piston speeds and that is where the problem with longevity comes in. I want power but don't care to subject my stroker engine to 7500 RPM to get it. That is supposedly one of the big advantages of a stroker motor is torque and power in the useable RPM range. If you read the original post he is asking "What are the advantages of a solid roller?" in the text he says looking for power under 6500 RPM for street use. HYDRAULIC ROLLER & AFR REV KIT!!!is the way to go for his application. I see NO ADVANTAGE to a sollid roller for his intended use.This is where I am coming from with my posts.

MotorHead

If the only purpose of solid roller is to rev to 7500 RPM then I have the wrong cam because I have only been there a few seconds out of hundreds of hours driving. The power band is supposed to start at 3000 RPM, that doesn't mean you have to cruise around at that RPM either, I have over 450 ft/lbs at 2000 RPM. Just because you can rev it to the moon dosen't mean you have to hold your foot to the floor backing out the driveway.

Most of my driving is done at 2000RPM, don''t forget if the solid roller cam makes more power at 6500RPM then it probably makes more power at 2000RPM. For me, personally, I see no reason not have a solid roller in my motor. I like keeping and eye on the valve train, adjusting the lash etc. it is my hobby, if it was a DD and I had to drive it to work I would put a flat tappet cam in it

GDaina

A major consideration choosing flat tappet vs. roller....Motor oils.....current oils are designed to work with roller cams, as the cars on the road from the 90's to the present are rollers. Rollers don't need the additives that flat tappets need, thus the oil companies have eliminated those additive. As most of you know, the lack of the needed additives greatly shortens the life span of the flat tappet cam, and makes break in procedure, and adventure.

Little Mouse

Solid cams rule.

63mako

Yes they do! And as I stated before Motorhead has built an awesome motor. But a solid roller is not for everyone. A hydraulic roller has it's place also. Not everyone can afford or wants to do what it takes to get the maximum benefit out of the solid roller cam. Some people want to run a 180 or 190 cc head, Dual plane intake, Stock bottom end and mostly stock drivetrain components. They want a dependable, mainanance free, street driver with some extra power that will occasionally see 6000 RPM. This is what the original poster seemed to be looking for. A Top end kit with matched hydraulic roller, a good set of 190 CC heads, dual plane and carb will give you up to an extra 100 HP on a stock base engine without sacrificing much durability, extra maintanance or expensive bottom end and drivetrain upgrades. With these requirements I really don't see the benefit of a solid roller cam for his application, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

jimmygmartin

Gkull just blew up his new, solid roller 427, Broke a forged crank in half. It was an expensive motor with all top shelf components, but it was run to 7500 RPM on a regular basis. .[/QUOTE]
I recall Gkull's motor was sujected to hydraulic lock. Did he ever come to any conclusion as to the cause of his unfotunate crank breakage ?? I agree that a solid roller is not for everyone, but depending on the grind, use of a solid roller may not be for the purpose of extending your range past 7000 RPM. Solid rollers give you a broader torque band, so a lower duration solid roller will give you more down lower then the same cam in hydraulic.

MotorHead

Now whe're getting somewhere

alnukem

That's what I figured from looking at the cam companies charts, it seems I can get a additional 500 rpm in the power band between 2000-6000 rpm where a hydralic roller is maybe 2500-6000. Also, the lift for this particuliar cam is .525 & the duration is only .224 @ .50, this seems to be a pretty kick-*** cam for sreet use. I kinda wanted something that ran especially well for what it is & still be streetable. I like to hammer on back roads that go up & down hills & around some pretty nasty turns. If I get into a long duration cam, I am afraid its going to fall flat. Thanks!

63mako

Guess I am alone in this opinion.

kaiserbud

I am trying to keep up with you guys..... It's funny how you (read 'I') overlook the possibility of a solid roller giving a broader range - all I related the solid roller to was higher RPM. I guess you do not have to hit 7500 (if ever at all).

Question though - I don't like the sound of the solid roller - it sounds like the lifters are tapping.... is a flat tappet solid the same? Or have I been listening to out of adjustment lifters.

MotorHead

Music to my ears, some really love the sound and yes, solid flat tappet has a similar sound

Solid roller is not for everyone. When I first put mine I was checking lash every 500 miles and adjustments needed to be made because everything was wearing in. Much more attention is needed than a solid flat tapper. Now it holds it's lash and I only need to adjust once or twice a year, I do it more than that though because I like doing it

You are right about the torque, it is there in abundance which makes it so much fun to drive on the street. I would advise anyone to put a solid roller in if they are wiling to learn how to set the lash now and then, but more importantly keep and eye on the entire valvetrain. It is very difficult to characterize or categorize the solid roller cam unless you have had one.

alnukem

Sorry if I'm "not so smart" on a lot of this stuff. It has been a long time since I tinkered with performance cars & then it was only putting station wagon & truck engines in Mustangs with headers & gears, maybe changing heads & manifolds. I have never delved into cams & aluminium heads that flow. I have seen way too many cars that ran like crap because somebody put in a "3/4 Race Cam" in thier otherwise stock engine. Does this sound like a reasonable build?

Flat Top rebuilt 355
Weiand Stealth Manifold
AFR Competition Ported 180cc Eliminator heads
Solid Roller with .224 Lift @ .50 & .525 lift
Demon 650 Carb

Thanks

MotorHead

I would get compression about 10.5:1 to 11:1 and run the comp cams XR274R solid roller. Those heads flow good so take advantage of that. Use 1.6 rockers and you will be near .600" lift. Get the updated 818 lifters from Comp with the oiling hole for the roller, not the old ones

THat cam with those heads ( and I am talking about the fully cnc ported competiton heads you describe not the street heads ) will give you a killer motor with power down low as well at be able to rev to 7000RPM. You might want to think about 195's too

One thing if you go this route, this is not a put together motor, break it in and forget about it. You need to be constantly monitoring what is going on with the valve train right from the beginning. Not a big deal if you like tinkering and after it is worn in then you can relax a little and don't need to be so vigilant. If that sounds like too much trouble then go another route

kaiserbud

I am taking my 427/435 in tomorrow for a rebuild. I need the buillder's input. I have 11:1 and will be getting a new set of Brodix Heads (I think the builder may prefer Dart). I am still lost on which cam to go with. Just want to make sure it runs on pump gas and is dependably fast. Mine dynoed @ a measley 301 RWHP (GM Marine hydraulic cam and rectangular port heads, Turbo400 and factory side exhausts). At one time it was quick for me - but with today's cars/technology - not anymore.

I don't realy like to tinker on valves, maybe just want to tinker on 'keeping her clean'. That said, I have never been at the level where I coud tinker (based on no $$$ and no time and something else that HAD to be done)... Maybe I would do it this time around....anyway - I am excited about taking it into the shop tomorrow !

GDaina

Comp Cams 288AR solid roller ... idles at 800, pulls 14"-15" vacuum. very good street manners....

alnukem

Wow, I got some good input! I have thought about the Comp Cams 280AR, I think this is the one that GDaina was speaking of, I was a little afraid that it might be too big. I am definately afraid of the XR274R. As I said, this is my first build & I am hesitant about going too big & having a dog on the low end. I have also thought about running the 268AR with 1.6 rockers. I need to figure out compression on my short block now. What do you mean "constantly monitoring" on this motor, what do you watch for? Thanks.

63mako

The solid roller needs the lash adjusted and valetrain checked regularly, especially during break in. The lash is more than oil clearance. It needs a specific amount of play at the rocker arm valve interface to run properly, that is the tapping noise you hear. Too much play resuilts in excessive wear and damaged valvetrain components = metal in oil. Too little play results in excessive wear and damaged valvetrain components = metal in oil. Not a big deal if you like tinkering.
Hydraulic Roller = Set it and forget it, and big gains in power and torque over a standard hydraulic. If you want more than 6500 RPM capability and like tinkering with it like Motorhead the solid roller will give you a little more, but very little difference with sub .550 lift. If you are looking for mainainance free and limiting RPM to 6000 to 6500 hydraulic roller is a good option. Both have their place and devotees. I posted some dyno results a while back. A 406 with 23 degree heads and a solid roller W/ 14.8 to 1 compression pulled 715 HP @ 7600 RPM. The dyno pull was to 8100 RPM. You could NEVER get that out of a hydraulic roller but this motor will be torn down and rebuilt every season. The owner likes to tinker and is willing to give up durability and extra maintainance for horsepower and RPM. It all depends on the individual. There are a lot of dependable, relativly maintanace free 500 HP Small block engines out there running hydraulic rollers with no issues. There are not very many running 700 HP without a solid roller and a lot of maintainance.

63mako

I fold!

holley505

I RAN A SOLID ROLLER IN SBC CAMARO....SOUNDS AWESOME !!

REVS AWESOME..... MAKES BETTER POWER IN THE RANGE.

THEN I HIT WITH 175 KICK OF NO2 MID 11