200R4 vs.700R4 Question
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Searcy Arkansas
200R4 vs.700R4 Question
I am in the market for another trans. I have been searching the forum and am a bit confused about which direction to go. I know there are going to be tons of opinions but in a 78 with a 350HP crate (or so they say...) which trans woud be the best way to go? What are the advantages of one over the other? Are there any recomendations on where to buy something dependable and well built? I bought a "Steeet Fighter" trans from Jegs several years ago for a Ford F100 project I was working on and all it has ever done is leak...
Thanks,
John
Thanks,
John
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
TH200R4 without a doubt;
1) bolt in fit. Even the TH350 yoke and stock driveshaft can be used.
2) great gearing.. Big first gear but not too huge spacing between gears.
3) low drivetrain loss (less than TH700R4)
4) lower weight than TH00R4
5) can be built equally as strong as TH700R4 or even stronger.
6) biggest overdrive gear of any common GM OD automatic tranny (.67)
I have over 150 passes on my TH200R4 (built by CPT Transmission) in my 10 second '68 Vette and I haven't had any transmission issues yet!
http://www.cpttransmission.com
1) bolt in fit. Even the TH350 yoke and stock driveshaft can be used.
2) great gearing.. Big first gear but not too huge spacing between gears.
3) low drivetrain loss (less than TH700R4)
4) lower weight than TH00R4
5) can be built equally as strong as TH700R4 or even stronger.
6) biggest overdrive gear of any common GM OD automatic tranny (.67)
I have over 150 passes on my TH200R4 (built by CPT Transmission) in my 10 second '68 Vette and I haven't had any transmission issues yet!
http://www.cpttransmission.com
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,720
Likes: 12
From: Chattanooga TN
For 350hp a 700R4 can handle that too. Either one will have to be built to handle it. I have a 700R4 in both my 'Vette and my '83 truck and am very happy with them.
My '95 Suburban has a 4L60E which shares some internals with the 700R4/4L60. I have towed many trailers and it is not a light vehicle. Turned over 200K miles the other day. It was serviced at 100K. Still shifts like it did 100K miles ago.
Which ever way you go, be sure to properly adjust the TV cable BEFORE you drive it.
My '95 Suburban has a 4L60E which shares some internals with the 700R4/4L60. I have towed many trailers and it is not a light vehicle. Turned over 200K miles the other day. It was serviced at 100K. Still shifts like it did 100K miles ago.
Which ever way you go, be sure to properly adjust the TV cable BEFORE you drive it.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by markdtn
Which ever way you go, be sure to properly adjust the TV cable BEFORE you drive it.
Can you explain this process a little? I too will be installing a 200R4 and will need to understand this as I'll be doing that part of the install. Thanks.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by SIXFOOTER
BTO site has a pretty good writeup on the adjustment and what it does
I know, and I'll be picking through their site, I just figured it'd be good to hear it from someone who's done it before.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Searcy Arkansas
Originally Posted by GrandSportC3
TH200R4 without a doubt;
1) bolt in fit. Even the TH350 yoke and stock driveshaft can be used.
2) great gearing.. Big first gear but not too huge spacing between gears.
3) low drivetrain loss (less than TH700R4)
4) lower weight than TH00R4
5) can be built equally as strong as TH700R4 or even stronger.
6) biggest overdrive gear of any common GM OD automatic tranny (.67)
I have over 150 passes on my TH200R4 (built by CPT Transmission) in my 10 second '68 Vette and I haven't had any transmission issues yet!
http://www.cpttransmission.com
1) bolt in fit. Even the TH350 yoke and stock driveshaft can be used.
2) great gearing.. Big first gear but not too huge spacing between gears.
3) low drivetrain loss (less than TH700R4)
4) lower weight than TH00R4
5) can be built equally as strong as TH700R4 or even stronger.
6) biggest overdrive gear of any common GM OD automatic tranny (.67)
I have over 150 passes on my TH200R4 (built by CPT Transmission) in my 10 second '68 Vette and I haven't had any transmission issues yet!
http://www.cpttransmission.com
Besides the trans and T. Converter do I need anything else (for lock-up, ect...)?
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
There are two listed wirings for the 200, and some dozen for the 700 on converter lockup....but so it seems I have the more common version of either, and so in my switch from 700 to 200, I am using the same cable, and just plugged it in the other day...
looks as if it will work.....engine not finished assembling yet....
looks as if it will work.....engine not finished assembling yet....
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Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,071
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From: San Diego CA
For a light car, like a Corvette, the 2004R is an excellent match in terms of reliability, economy, and fit, in my opinion.
The 700R4 is better suited for light to medium duty pick up trucks. The 2004R really isn't built for towing and carrying a large load, but how much weight are you honestly going to be dragging around in a Corvette? The gearing in the 2004R is more evenly spaced and easier on the tires, while the gearing on the 700 starts with like a 3.07 and then drops to like a 1.7, or somewhere around there. I had a '95 Camaro Z28 and a '94 Firebird with the 4L60E and 4L60. Both would shred tires with ease if you just floored it from a stop. This is with only ~300hp and a measily 160hp.
The 700R4 is better suited for light to medium duty pick up trucks. The 2004R really isn't built for towing and carrying a large load, but how much weight are you honestly going to be dragging around in a Corvette? The gearing in the 2004R is more evenly spaced and easier on the tires, while the gearing on the 700 starts with like a 3.07 and then drops to like a 1.7, or somewhere around there. I had a '95 Camaro Z28 and a '94 Firebird with the 4L60E and 4L60. Both would shred tires with ease if you just floored it from a stop. This is with only ~300hp and a measily 160hp.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 65,492
Likes: 230
From: Orange Park Florida
Yes, I had allways considered the first gear of my 700 to be completely useless with 336 rear end....allways shifted in about 2 seconds....then wound out 2nd forever it seemed, and 3/4 was a decent shift point so I left it alone...
wondering what that Trans Go kit will do for me in that 200 I have, cant' wait to get it going, but other issues with work being done are delaying getting there, maybe by Christmas...maybe....
wondering what that Trans Go kit will do for me in that 200 I have, cant' wait to get it going, but other issues with work being done are delaying getting there, maybe by Christmas...maybe....
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,071
Likes: 0
From: San Diego CA
Originally Posted by mrvette
Yes, I had allways considered the first gear of my 700 to be completely useless with 336 rear end....allways shifted in about 2 seconds....then wound out 2nd forever it seemed, and 3/4 was a decent shift point so I left it alone...
wondering what that Trans Go kit will do for me in that 200 I have, cant' wait to get it going, but other issues with work being done are delaying getting there, maybe by Christmas...maybe....
wondering what that Trans Go kit will do for me in that 200 I have, cant' wait to get it going, but other issues with work being done are delaying getting there, maybe by Christmas...maybe....
The Grand National used a 2004R.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Originally Posted by justaguy10825
Besides the trans and T. Converter do I need anything else (for lock-up, ect...)?
The way I set up the TV cable is so that at WOT, the cable is fully pulled out!
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Originally Posted by justaguy10825
Besides the trans and T. Converter do I need anything else (for lock-up, ect...)?
i use the 700r4...whats your rear end ratio? that will help you decide
yu will also need....shift detente kit, TV cable and bracketry, lock up relay to disengage torque converter while braking.....and maybe a cross member
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by bobs77vet
...and maybe a cross member
From what I understand...the existing cross member from a TH400 will allow the TH200R4 to bolt right up. The TH350 cross member requires it to be moved back a little, or have the holes enlarged. I think a TH700R4 needs a new cross member all together.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 258
Likes: 1
From: Memphis TN
Swapping TH-400 for TH200R4
Originally Posted by GrandSportC3
TH200R4 without a doubt;
1) bolt in fit. Even the TH350 yoke and stock driveshaft can be used.
2) great gearing.. Big first gear but not too huge spacing between gears.
3) low drivetrain loss (less than TH700R4)
4) lower weight than TH00R4
5) can be built equally as strong as TH700R4 or even stronger.
6) biggest overdrive gear of any common GM OD automatic tranny (.67)
I have over 150 passes on my TH200R4 (built by CPT Transmission) in my 10 second '68 Vette and I haven't had any transmission issues yet!
http://www.cpttransmission.com
1) bolt in fit. Even the TH350 yoke and stock driveshaft can be used.
2) great gearing.. Big first gear but not too huge spacing between gears.
3) low drivetrain loss (less than TH700R4)
4) lower weight than TH00R4
5) can be built equally as strong as TH700R4 or even stronger.
6) biggest overdrive gear of any common GM OD automatic tranny (.67)
I have over 150 passes on my TH200R4 (built by CPT Transmission) in my 10 second '68 Vette and I haven't had any transmission issues yet!
http://www.cpttransmission.com
I have a 74 coupe with 454/TH-400/3.08 and am considering a swap to an OD trans. but have wondered which one would be best overall for my application in terms of fit, ease of installation, gearing, and reliability. I am also considering swapping out my tired 454 for a ZZ502 crate engine (502 hp, 567 torque).
So the 200R4 is a bolt-in for the TH-400? What about the cross member? What about the driveshaft? What are the ratios? Can both lock-up and non-lock-up converters be used?
Is the 4L80E or 4L85E better suited behind a big block? Thanks.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Originally Posted by Durango_boy
From what I understand...the existing cross member from a TH400 will allow the TH200R4 to bolt right up. The TH350 cross member requires it to be moved back a little, or have the holes enlarged. I think a TH700R4 needs a new cross member all together.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 24,125
Likes: 15
From: Columbia Missouri
Originally Posted by GrandSportC3
The 700R4 either needs a bracket for the exixting crossmember or a new crossmember. Bowtie discontinued selling the bracket as they can make more money on a crossmember..
Is it true that when replacing a TH350 with a TH200R4, all you have to do is move the stock cross member back about two inches?
Pro
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 518
Likes: 17
The 700R4 has a Tailhousing option that put's the mount roughly an inch farther back than the 400's, so you just have to drill a couple of holes is all (same as the 82 C3). You'll also need to move the Handbrake Cable Pulley over an inch or so most likely, shorten the Driveshaft (under $100), and everything else bolts up etc.
The 700R4 and 2004R are of equal strength when properly built, and deciding on one or the other should depend on your rear gears, with 3.08 and lower numerically using a 700R4, and 3.55 and higher numerically using a 2004R, with 3.2x - 3.3x kind of workable for either depending on usage and tire type etc.
On either the Governor can be adjusted to put the shiftpoints where you want them.
My 700R4 has lived for some 13 years behind the 406/375 in my 71 Coupe, which runs high 12's on street tires, with no problems.
Doug
The 700R4 and 2004R are of equal strength when properly built, and deciding on one or the other should depend on your rear gears, with 3.08 and lower numerically using a 700R4, and 3.55 and higher numerically using a 2004R, with 3.2x - 3.3x kind of workable for either depending on usage and tire type etc.
On either the Governor can be adjusted to put the shiftpoints where you want them.
My 700R4 has lived for some 13 years behind the 406/375 in my 71 Coupe, which runs high 12's on street tires, with no problems.
Doug
Originally Posted by Durango_boy
From what I understand...the existing cross member from a TH400 will allow the TH200R4 to bolt right up. The TH350 cross member requires it to be moved back a little, or have the holes enlarged. I think a TH700R4 needs a new cross member all together.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 182,997
Likes: 88
From: Lakeland, FL
Cruise-In IV-V-VI-VII-VIII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '03, '06, '17
Originally Posted by Durango_boy
Is it true that when replacing a TH350 with a TH200R4, all you have to do is move the stock cross member back about two inches?