C3 Tech/Performance V8 Technical Info, Internal Engine, External Engine, Basic Tech and Maintenance for the C3 Corvette
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Installing extra head bolts in a bigblock

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 5, 2007 | 07:08 PM
  #21  
69 N.O.X. RATT's Avatar
69 N.O.X. RATT
Safety Car
20 Year Member
All Eyes On Me
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,892
Likes: 13
From: Pettis Performance 565 with two stages of Nitrous Supply nitrous 1.082, 4.61 at 155, 7.17 at 192
Default

Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
John I agree the 308 gearing is plenty but I tend to drive alot in high gear, even through town where the rpm is down to 600 or 700. I feel this could have been part of the problem with me wiping my roller cam last year.
I also know that it will be 4th gear before I get any traction with street tires. I was able to take it slowly to the top end of 3rd gear before and punch it just before red line and have the tires disintergrate. It can bet scary. I already bought the 3.55 gears and will run them. I have tried 308, 355, 373, 411 and 456 in the mustang and found the 355 the best for it. I want to try them in my vet.
I did find that the 411's with my old blower motor were all wrong. I couldn't use 1st gear and often took off in 3rd.
If I don't like the 3.55 I can go back to the 308's
Ya, if you do not lke the 3.55's you can always swap them out. Good luck Norval.
Reply
Old Jan 5, 2007 | 07:56 PM
  #22  
norvalwilhelm's Avatar
norvalwilhelm
Thread Starter
Race Director
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Default

Originally Posted by 69 N.O.X. RATT
Maybe I have been lucky, but other than a little weeping I have had no issues with the O-rings .
that is the whole point against O rings. This weeping messes up the engine compartment and undercarriage. My car has to run for thousands of miles and I can't have any weeping, none.
My last motor weeped a little and it bugged me.
Reply
Old Jan 5, 2007 | 10:20 PM
  #23  
GOSFAST's Avatar
GOSFAST
Burning Brakes
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 894
Likes: 91
Default "O" Ringed Blocks / Gaskets / Fasteners

If you look at the head bolt pattern on the BB's, you notice 4 cylinders, 2 on each side, already have 6 bolts completely "surrounding" them. The other 2 "need" those inner mounting bolts in for the gaskets to do their job effectively. Not certain I would trust those "allen" bolts in there, much prefer some ARP studs,washers, and their 12 point "AN" nuts. This is all we use on this style build.

If you've got your block setup for "O" rings you may want to swap over to Corteco's new copper head gaskets WITH the entire piece pre-sealed. We have them on 1200/1400 HP units where we usually used the "dead-soft" copper and install our own sealer. No more leaks OR "blow-outs". They are available in assorted thicknesses and bore sizes for the BB's. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. These gaskets are under the heads of a number of units we now build along with many of the "high-end" racers in the country, all with excellent results. One of our own at 7.40's & 180 MPH has a pair on for 2 seasons now. There's a pair on this all-aluminum blown "Keith Black" pictured below!

-

Last edited by GOSFAST; Jan 5, 2007 at 10:22 PM. Reason: Add info
Reply
Old Jan 6, 2007 | 02:37 AM
  #24  
rpoL98's Avatar
rpoL98
Pro
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 583
Likes: 61
From: USA
Default

just wondering, how well (or poorly) do the extra bolts holes in the block, and in the heads, line up with the extra bolt holes in the GM or FelPro gaskets?

did the holes in the block line up with extra holes in the gaskets in the first place? since you probably don't have an original ZL1 block laying around (I don't either), and unless you have the original GM heads with the extra bolt holes, not sure how to establish which one is the reference standard.
Reply
Old Jan 6, 2007 | 10:51 AM
  #25  
norvalwilhelm's Avatar
norvalwilhelm
Thread Starter
Race Director
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Default

Originally Posted by rpoL98
just wondering, how well (or poorly) do the extra bolts holes in the block, and in the heads, line up with the extra bolt holes in the GM or FelPro gaskets?

did the holes in the block line up with extra holes in the gaskets in the first place? since you probably don't have an original ZL1 block laying around (I don't either), and unless you have the original GM heads with the extra bolt holes, not sure how to establish which one is the reference standard.
The Fel Pro head gasket lined up perfectly with the bosses on the Merlin block. The center drilling on the Brodix heads was off. I adjusted the holes in the head to match the block so I don't know if my taped holes are right for another block?
But again the block lined up perfectly with the gasket. If I had drilled the holes where Brodix meant I would have been off and the head bolts would not have worked.
Reply
Old Jan 6, 2007 | 10:53 AM
  #26  
norvalwilhelm's Avatar
norvalwilhelm
Thread Starter
Race Director
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Default

Originally Posted by GOSFAST
If you look at the head bolt pattern on the BB's, you notice 4 cylinders, 2 on each side, already have 6 bolts completely "surrounding" them. The other 2 "need" those inner mounting bolts in for the gaskets to do their job effectively. Not certain I would trust those "allen" bolts in there, much prefer some ARP studs,washers, and their 12 point "AN" nuts. This is all we use on this style build.

If you've got your block setup for "O" rings you may want to swap over to Corteco's new copper head gaskets WITH the entire piece pre-sealed. We have them on 1200/1400 HP units where we usually used the "dead-soft" copper and install our own sealer. No more leaks OR "blow-outs". They are available in assorted thicknesses and bore sizes for the BB's. Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. These gaskets are under the heads of a number of units we now build along with many of the "high-end" racers in the country, all with excellent results. One of our own at 7.40's & 180 MPH has a pair on for 2 seasons now. There's a pair on this all-aluminum blown "Keith Black" pictured below!

-
The block is NOT set up for O rings. My last block was. I actually had a complaint from the buyer when he saw the O ringed block. He doesn't like O rings and that means alot of machening to deck the block to get rid of them.
As for the allen bolts they are grade 8 and torqued to 55 foot pounds. Well within their limit but studs would have been nice.
Reply
Old Jan 6, 2007 | 01:38 PM
  #27  
GOSFAST's Avatar
GOSFAST
Burning Brakes
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 894
Likes: 91
Default Eliminating "O" Ring Grooves?

Hi Norval, to date with our own units at or above 1400 HP, I "O" ring ALL units. I have NO water leaks with the "Corteco's".

Now, as to blocks that have existing "O" ring grooves, we've been experimenting for some time now with a truly correct "cure". I CANNOT remove the grooves in many of the returning units without an entire new build. Don't want to be milling decks down .031"+ to a "new" surface, SO, we came up with our own "fix" as follows:

This is only for using castings that have the existing grooves. It DOES require re-milling, BUT, removing only a minimum amount of material. What you do is install "copper" wire, .041", and literally "pound" it, as much as possible, into the grooves. Once "seated" the block can now be resurfaced to flat and the "copper" becomes the new "base". We've done a number this way to date AND with ALL gaskets on the market. As I said above, the "Corteco's" are a real pleasure to use. I have some issues with the "Cometic's" to date. Not ours, and probably a surface
"finish" issue, no doubt.

I can "sympathize" with you with respect to the cooling system water "spraying" right out from between the block and heads on the high-end" blown units, it use to really annoy us, but I haven't had that one for some years. It was somewhat common however after each 1/4 mile pass.

(Add) The "Corteco's", these are "dead-soft copper" by the way also, MUST be used in conjunction with the "O" ring grooves only. This is what they've told us, but we have not tested this yet, as we groove any BB in the 1000 HP area and above as "standard procedure".

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

(Add) To Norval and others with the inner head bolt holes, keep in mind we use a high number of these blocks and have put a "kit" together for this sole area. Consists of 4 stud, 4 washers, and 4 AN nuts, ALL ARP components. If anybody needs them you are welcome to contact me with an e-mail. Although your setup "gets-it-done", it much easier to work the studs/washers/nuts deal, you don't need as accurate measurement with respect to the lengths! Again, it keeps it simpler! Also, I don't see any washers on the "Allen" bolts, always better to have a "buffer" between the casting AND the head of the fastener, especially with the "seat-size" on all allen bolts, much like when using head bolts/studs. They all use washers. If they're in place I can't see them from the photos.

P.S. Just another "tip" here on removing the stainless wire. This was a real "headache" for us through the years and after much "studying" realized the "fix" was a really simple one. We drill a 1/16" hole outside the wire, while it's in the groove, about an 1/8" deep, and simply "pick" the wire out. The "stainless" wire acts as guide so you don't drill into the groove itself. We can remove ALL 8 wires in a matter of minutes. We drill them with a 1/4" drill motor and the 1/16" bit. Simple!

Last edited by GOSFAST; Jan 6, 2007 at 05:03 PM. Reason: Add Info
Reply
Old Jan 6, 2007 | 06:16 PM
  #28  
norvalwilhelm's Avatar
norvalwilhelm
Thread Starter
Race Director
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,872
Likes: 12
From: Waterloo ontario Canada
Default

Thank you Gosfast. That is alot of information. I just wish I had it a few weeks ago. I would have definitely ordered the stud kit. I just didn't know what else to use beside the allen bolts.
I used Fel Pro composite gaskets but if I have any problems I will go back to the solid copper gasket.
Thank you
Norval
Reply
Corvette Stories

The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts

story-0

10 Ugly Corvettes That We Still Kinda Love

 Joe Kucinski
story-1

Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer

 Brett Foote
story-2

10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)

 Michael S. Palmer
story-3

8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems

 Pouria Savadkouei
story-4

10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years

 Joe Kucinski
story-5

How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972

 Joe Kucinski
story-6

Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-7

Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!

 Joe Kucinski
story-8

150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter

 Joe Kucinski
story-9

8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time

 Verdad Gallardo
Old Jan 6, 2007 | 09:01 PM
  #29  
bobs77vet's Avatar
bobs77vet
Race Director
20 Year Member
Conversation Starter
All Eyes On Me
Liked
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,874
Likes: 263
From: Arlington Va Current ride 04 vert, previous vettes: 69 vert, 77 resto mod
Default

good job.
Reply




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:48 PM.

story-0
10 Ugly Corvettes That We Still Kinda Love

Slideshow: 10 ugly Corvettes that we still kinda love.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-06-03 10:34:17


VIEW MORE
story-1
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer

A lot of money has changed hands at the online auction house over the years.

By Brett Foote | 2026-06-03 10:21:50


VIEW MORE
story-2
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)

Slideshow: 10 great gifts Corvette enthusiasts actually want for Father's Day!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-06-03 15:43:40


VIEW MORE
story-3
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems

Slideshow: These are the quirks, annoyances, and oddly lovable problems that every Corvette owner eventually learns to live with.

By Pouria Savadkouei | 2026-05-28 09:31:39


VIEW MORE
story-4
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years

Slideshow: 10 reasons why the C6 Z06 is still a performance benchmark after 20 years.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-27 17:20:09


VIEW MORE
story-5
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972

Slideshow: How much horsepower every Corvette engine lost in 1972.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-27 16:54:53


VIEW MORE
story-6
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!

Slideshow: How to Protect A Convertible Top: 10 DOs & DON'Ts

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-03 00:00:00


VIEW MORE
story-7
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!

Slideshow: The 10 most explosive Corvettes ever built based on power-to-weight ratio.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-20 07:23:03


VIEW MORE
story-8
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter

Slideshow: From C1 to C8 we compare every Corvette generation by the numbers.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-12 16:54:12


VIEW MORE
story-9
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time

Slideshow: Some Corvette pace cars became collectible legends, while others perfectly captured the look and attitude of their era.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-11 09:50:51


VIEW MORE