I would like this not to turn into a hydraulic vs solid debate. Crower has a oiler design that is supposed to be good but at 500.00 Just wondering if the other major brands have similar. I think Comp Cam has something along those lines but I hear so much conflicting quality stories lately regarding Comp Cam but I never had a problem with them personally.

 

Crower makes excellent solid Rollers. Isky red zones are great too..They have been testign another one (dont know if they are selling it yet) that uses a bronze bushing rather than needle bearings, suposedly has 4x the normal life. I have heard many good things about Crane's, too. Im using the Crower severe dutys, see how they work out. Not to vendor bash but I would not use the Comp solid roller lifters, too many failures out there. Could be because they sell so many of them you hear about it more often, but still...

 

At this point, the only 2 that have proven themselves to be worth the investment for a street ride are Isky Red Zones and Crower with the High Pressure Pin Oiling (HPPO) option. The pin oiling is the key at this point. I understand the Isky bushed piece is available now, it will be interesting to watch how they do on the street. The reduced problems from needle bearings released into an engine makes 'em worth the extra $150 or so that they cost, IMHO. It doesn't reduce the need for routine lash checks, etc., though. One other thing, the orfice that sprays oil onto the cam/wheel contact point (NOT the pin oiling circuit) can cause low oil pressure at idle due to the massive amount of oil that it hemmorrhages. Iskys are available with a street option which reduces the orfice size and keeps pressure up at idle.
I'll may sell my Red Zones, they have the street oil option, and go with the bushed ones. Since I'll have a few months until my engine is built and dyno'd, I should be able to find some folks running and testing them on the street and strip.

 

Thanks for the input! How often should lash be checked? I am currently running a hydraulic roller with a Comp Cam 236/242 @05. Looking to step up to a 242/248 or 248/254 @05 solid roller. Should I consider a Crane or Isky over Comp Cam? Again, I have never had a problem with CC but I have also never put more than 4000 mile on a single cam yea...my wife has cam swap envy...

 

My question is what are you trying to do? The only advantage to SR cams is no rpm limitation. Where your HR motor should have a 6000 - 6200 red line. Because of the 4 inch stroke and I wanted my 427 to last I just use 7000 rpm red line.

I have been very happy with my Crane Ultra pros at $500+ for a set. I had them for a couple of years in my 7500 rpm 383 and then used them in my 427 until it blew up and now they spent this whole time back in my 383.

Have you added up all the cost to change over to solid roller? $500+ for roller lifters. I use $130 or so push rods and $680 springs/retainers. You could use cheaper springs and chromemolly retainers. You can't use your existing push rods or springs. I've changed my springs with the heads on and it's a two person PITA with a big bar to compress 200 pound seat and near 600 pound open pressures. You have to trust your co-worker to be inserting the 10 degree locks because that kind of pressure would just pinch your finger tips off.

Comp has cheap pot metal H-roller cams. Your better of with Crane or jump up to Comp Cams pure billet steel.

 

There are none produced to date that are "hanging" for any length of time with "high-pressures" and street-use. This is why many mfr's. are STILL chasing a totally different design as of today.

The Isky "Red-Zones" all of a sudden are failing, we've seen it months ago already. Visit the Chevelle forum and do a "search"!

Hi George, we see no failures,to speak of to date, on SB's, probably due to the very specific BB "geomtery". I just delivered a SB that we built back in 1990 with a solid roller setup. It came for freshen-up and we put the SAME lifters back inside. Have no clue to mileage, I do know it's relatively low for 16 years.

One more tip for you George, invest in a "Manley" spring installer, you can install 1000#+ springs with 2 fingers. Part #62370, you'll love it! You DO NOT need a partner, believe me.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. We've spent much time testing with Hydraulic-Roller units and feel this is the way to go for street setups. The last "bridge" I have to cross will be the "Bee-Hive" springs. After a brief discussion with the guy's over at "The Vette Doctors" here, it MAY be the cure to get the BB's into the 7000+ RPM range. As of today we have them at 6600 RPM with the "dual" spring setup! This is of course with the "Titanium" retainer option. Comp's been "pushing" to get us to go over to the "Bee-Hives". We'll see!

 

Gary, I only have the threaded rocker stud bar compressor. If I welded a longer arm I would have more leverage. It's already been repaired from cracking using it on Sprint Car triple springs.

I would have used Beehive springs except for the cost. When you need big lift you have to look at Comp Cams NASCAR type springs. I just couldn't justify $800+ dollar springs.

The Crane Ultra Pros have been very good to me. They are supposed to take on 1000 pound springs and big cams. I use tighter lash cams and actually about 190# seat 580# open with +.050 retainers so max lift is increased from .750 to .800 I won't even be taxing them with my new .680/.710 lift. The local circle trackers use near identical weight V-train setups and they do 8000 rpm for a whole season twice a lap. I'm only doing 7000.

 

I Morel lifter in all my hp engines,if not then Comps solid lifters

 

Hi George, the spring pressure's are NOT the "key" to the problem. It's entirely the street use the car sees, the duration (time driven). These roller lifters are not, and never were, meant to be used in the street-car arena. Just because people wanted to use them it has become an issue. Moreso recently than in the past. The HP numbers are "pushing the envelope" right now. We, not me personally, have some SB Fords down here in the 1800 HP range from 4.6 Litres (280") units. This puts some "stresses" on ALL components and most definitely shortens life expectancy dramatically!

Last weekend we delivered a 434" SB, normally aspirated, with 400# spring pressure closed and 1400# open. That is not a misprint, 1400#, at full lift. The unit made 1025HP in the dyno room and went to the customer with 950. We "held back" the other 75 for ourselves. Actually when he removes the 3/8" pushrods from it and replaces them with some 7/16" he will have 975 as tested. The other 50 HP is ours from add'l components tried during the tests! This unit "saw" a few cam changes while on the dyno. The springs alone are about $600.00 jobber and he's going to "eat" a few sets of them with just under a 1.000" lift at the valve!

I put this info here to try to put things in some perspective. After 50 passes, and that's a MAYBE, he will have to have us open it at that point and check it all over. "Comes with the territory", it's that simple!

Let me put a rhetorical question here. How long do you, or anybody up here, believe these lifters would survive in a street-car? Sort of like using a Pro-Stock unit as a "grocery-getter", if you get my point?

George, if you "play" with those heavy valve springs, buy or borrow that Moroso tool. You'll change these springs alone and not "break a sweat"!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. To date we have not lost any of Comp Cam's roller lifters. But we do have an "inkling" of the time frame to "dump" them. Nothing lasts forever no matter they cost! I warned many up on these forums a while back not to believe the "forecast" about "pressure-fed" roller-lifter oiling AND street-cars. I put most of my own "eggs" in the hyd-roller basket for now.

 

I installed my Isky Red Zones today and before installing the intake I decide to prime the motor, no push rods , just lifter in the block and I was suprised to see a oil wash comming out of the lifter and flooding the cam. Very encouraging sign.

 

Why would I have to use new springs? My current springs have 240lbs on the seat.

 

140# I would believe. Over 150# without thicker oil and high oil pressure you would not be getting full valve lift. 240# would damage H-rollers

 

Why do you have #240 on the seat? That is alot of spring pressure open. I have #190 on the seat and #550 open and feel even that is too high for alot of street miles.
I swapped out #800 pound springs that came with the head and I believe they were around #240 seat pressure

 

I got that figure off the AFR web site but I dug out the sales order and the installed springs are:

1.54 OD 145# @ 1.820 & 355# @ 1.25

The max lift is .600.

 

I run the original CC solid roller 818's with no direct oiling to the pin or the roller. I have over 20,000 street driven miles and had to replace one lifter because of brinnelling.

I run near 200# closed and less than 500# open. The cam is CC street roller. I don't let it idle very long without giving it a shot of gas to get the oil splashing on the rollers. I run oil restrictors to keep more oil in and around the center of the motor to lubricate the cam.

I don't rev the crap out of the motor all the time but the motor does see 7000 RPM. I check the lash more than I check my oil and inspect the lifters on a regular schedule. I believe if you don't do all or any of the above you could have problems long before 20,000 miles.

 

I think I am going to jujst step up to the Crane HR-306-2S 240/248 @ .05 and .595/.595 lift. My springs are only good to .60 max lift so even this will be cutting close. This cam is the almost the same as the CC HR294.