bence13_33

Things just got a little more complicated. I talked with my buddies dad (he had a '72 Corvette and put a 454 in it) and he pointed out a couple issues.

1. He recommended not using rubber motor mounts, he said that with the power that I'll be pushing it would be all too easy to snap them. He said that solid motor mounts is what I'll have to use. He has a pair of solid motor mounts that I can buy off of him for $20 though. My only concern is that with solid motor mounts...there is no give which will put a heck of a lot of strain on my frame and possibly cause twisting. What do you guys think?

2. He also advised me to not use my 4 speed tranny. He said that with the 4 speed it will be too torquey and will eventually lead to stress cracks and driveline problems. He said that I would be better off with a Turbo 400 or a Powerglide transmission. Any ideas?

3. His '72 Corvette didn't have power brakes or power steering....mine has both. He said that I could disconnect the lines for my power steering and get rid of the pulley and the power steering will then be much like manual steering. He didn't have much to say about the brakes, he just advised that I get rid of the power brakes. Any advise?

I was talking to him about his 'Vette and he told me the following. First you'll start busting U-joints. Once you get that straightened around you'll start twisting half-shafts. Then once you get half-shafts that can handle the power, you'll start snapping your spindles.

NOTE:
My buddies dad is a heavy drag racer (drag races A LOT down at our local track). On his '72 'Vette he ran huge slicks. This would account for the numerous parts that he broke and the twisted '72 'Vette frame. I have no intentions of ever slicking my car or running it down at the drags (maybe twice a year). I believe his situation was rather exaggerated due to the heavy beating that he put on the car.

* I still plan on running the 4 speed until she quiets on me :yesnod:


[Modified by bence13_33, 10:39 AM 10/5/2001]

71coupe

Motor mounts: I think the factory rubber type motor mounts are ok. If they give you problems you can always change them to solid or poly (not too difficult). L-88's came with rubber mounts.
Tranny: Stick with the 4 speed. It's always best to change one thing at a time & see how things respond. That big block will be generating a lot more heat than the 350, & an auto trans will generate more heat too.
If it proves to be too much for the manual, you can get stronger internals from Richmond. I think you can build your trans to be as strong as an M22 for less than a strong TH400. Don't even think about a Powerglide - strickly drag.
Get rid of the power brakes?? That is bad advise. Try to keep all of the accessories.
You will benifit fom stronger half shafts. Tom's has 3" shafts with strong u-joints for 400.00.
Good luck :smash:

GaryS

If rubber engine mounts aren't any good why does Chevy use them in big block applications. :confused: Same thing with the four speed. My friend is running a73 454 with a "little bit extra" built into it and it handles the manual transmisison nicely. Same with the engine mounts. I have never heard of just removing the belts on a PS setup and driving it like that. I had the ps belt break on my Buick Electra a while back. For a few seconds I thought that the steering had locked on me. :eek: You will still have the internal drag of the hydraulic components of the PS setup. Once again, my buddy's 73 454 has PS but no PB.

I normally wouldn't argue with someone in the race business but I am only looking across the street at my friend's house and he drives his 73 all the time. And he isn't easy on it.
Gary

Z-man

Here's my $.02 worth...

1. A good compromise might be the new polyurethane motor mounts.

2. Have never heard this logic...

3. Don't see why you would have to disconnect these. A BB will have plenty of extra power to drive these options.

Busting drive train components frequently indicates pretty hard abuse. You could make tires (regular sized street tires) your weakest link. That way the most you would loose would be some burned rubber...

427V8

NOTE:
My buddies dad is a heavy drag racer (drag races A LOT down at our local track).

He is like the guy I work with thats thinks running a spool on the street is OK!

Use the GM locking rubber mounts ( the 1/10 hp you'll loose is trivial ) they WILL survive unless you are doing nutral drops on a stickey track with slicks.
Solid mounts feel like those old metal wheeled rollerskates :U

And no you don't need Polyurethane either! Sales Gimmick!

Leave the power steering and brakes on fer christs sake, un like Mr 1/4 mile YOU have to turn the thing

Use the heavy duty GM spicer U-joints no grease fittings

Have a root beer

BTW when I say GM I mean GM not the crap from autozone!

James

Here is what I would say:
I would agree that things (i.e. half shafts, u-joints, tranny cases, output shafts, etc.....) will most likely break more when you really get a car to hook up (i.e big tires or slicks). I have not yet driven my car but everything that he says will be a problem if he is correct are going to be problems that I will be encountering. You can drive a car very hard and break things and then you can drive a car hard and not break things. I have a 509 Cubic Inch Big Block that dyno'd out at 540HP/501 Ft Lbs of torque in a DTS dyno. I have Poly motor mounts, a M-21, and the stock drive shafts with new U-Joints. I plan on running some stock sized tires all the way around. I have a hard time believing that I'm going to be able to get the tires to hookup so hard that I will break stuff. Again it is also in how you are going to drive the car. A nice good burnnie is different then reving it up to 3000-4000 rpms and dropping the clutch are 2 different things.

71coupe

Correction - I was wrong about the price of thoes shafts
http://www.tomsdifferentials.com/cat22.htm
I was thinking of the upper control arm kit (that's 400.00) :yesnod:

63Banshee

1. He recommended not using rubber motor mounts, he said that with the power that I'll be pushing it would be all too easy to snap them. He said that solid motor mounts is what I'll have to use. He has a pair of solid motor mounts that I can buy off of him for $20 though. My only concern is that with solid motor mounts...there is no give which will put a heck of a lot of strain on my frame and possibly cause twisting. What do you guys think?

DJ's answer: Use a torque strap and be creative with your design (i.e. a chain is not the best choice). The torque strap will prevent a rubber mount from breaking if it is properly adjusted. Solid mounts are not good for a street driven car.

2. He also advised me to not use my 4 speed tranny. He said that with the 4 speed it will be too torquey and will eventually lead to stress cracks and driveline problems. He said that I would be better off with a Turbo 400 or a Powerglide transmission. Any ideas?

DJ's answer: An automatic would be less problematic, costs less in the long run, doesn’t break as many parts, but not as much fun to drive. One thing to keep in mind is that an automatic tranny is prone to breaking easily when the rear end locks up due to failure. Furthermore, I wouldn’t use a stock 4-speed behind a 550 ft-lbs+ motor, and expect to pay premium clutch component prices if you want it to last. It is a give and take.

3. His '72 Corvette didn't have power brakes or power steering....mine has both. He said that I could disconnect the lines for my power steering and get rid of the pulley and the power steering will then be much like manual steering. He didn't have much to say about the brakes, he just advised that I get rid of the power brakes. Any advise?

DJ's answer: Don’t sweat the brakes. You may need to add a vacuum reservoir if your cam has a lot of duration. If you choose to lose the ps, as I would, a complete conversion is the way to go.

I was talking to him about his 'Vette and he told me the following. First you'll start busting U-joints. Once you get that straightened around you'll start twisting half-shafts. Then once you get half-shafts that can handle the power, you'll start snapping your spindles.

DJ's response: I’d never run a C3 Vette rear on the track with 550 ft-lbs+ torque and slicks… but I’m a MOPAR guy and I know the luxury of quality rear ends!

NOTE:
My buddies dad is a heavy drag racer (drag races A LOT down at our local track). On his '72 'Vette he ran huge slicks. This would account for the numerous parts that he broke and the twisted '72 'Vette frame. I have no intentions of ever slicking my car or running it down at the drags (maybe twice a year). I believe his situation was rather exaggerated due to the heavy beating that he put on the car.

DJ's response: You always run the risk of twisting a body of any car when it is repeatedly subjected to significant stress. The only solution to counter act this is a full cage. Other types of reinforcement will be sufficient if you don’t take it down the track too often.




[Modified by 63Banshee, 11:56 AM 10/5/2001]

Marks69BB

These guys are right! Do the poly motor and tranny mounts so you won't have to do them again; solid ones are too harsh for anything on the street. Leave the power options, especially the brakes cause you'll appreciate the whoa when it comes to slowing that bad boy down! My .02!

70PurpleLS7

Bence, no offense to your friends dad, but geez... listen to only half of what he says and the other half just disregard.

1. I went with the poly mounts, what's a little insurance for the couple of extra bucks I'm spending... BTW, you don't need to go with the chrome mounts. :lol:

2. Totally ludicrous, bet he asks for it or wants to trade ya one of his automatics.

3. Mine doesn't have power anything, keep it. Although if you have wimpy arms and ya feel like bulking up, hell go for it...

4. I'm sure if busting U-Joints, twisting half-shafts, snapping spindles, we're happening, you'd be hearing alot more of it.... In fact when was the last time anyone on the board even had such problems..

In regards to his opinions... :U

JYD69_427

1) The rubber locking mounts should be adequate unless you are dumping it constantly as someone else said.

I always hear how solid motor mounts are no good on the street. I find this interesting because I run solid mounts on my Chevelle. It's a built 454 with a moderately lumpy cam. There is no teeth rattling going on in the cabin. In fact, it seems mild mannered from the driver's seat. I use rubber body mounts and the stock seats tho- :yesnod: and the steering wheel isn't vibrating much at all either.

I feel most of the frame twisting is going to occur from the rear drive hooking up rather than the engine torquing about so no worries there.

2) A slush box over the manual? Not for those reasons.

3) Why? If you like punishment, remove the power steering and swap in manual (mine is manual and it's hard work when not moving) but don't just disconnect the lines. As stated, you'll be working against the hydraulics. I did this on an old beater truck I had. Everyone told me the thing could lock up due to lack of lubrication. It ran for years but was the worst of both worlds.

bence13_33

427V8:
It's funny that you should mention that about the spool. Their whole family has Camaros : Dad ('67 w/ a 540), Tim ('80 w/ a 462), Suzie ('80 w/ 400). Suzie's Camaro has a Detriot Locker Rear End (very similar to a spool). I was following behind her the one night and everytime she cut the wheel to make a turn, her back tires would screech like hell.

I was also told that the 454 won't fit under my stock hood (which is very possibly true). I have a feeling that it's going to be close. That's the reason why I chose the Torker II for an intake, it's only 1/4" taller than the stock cast iron intake.

By the way my Holley 850 Double Pumper came in today!

Chuck Harmon

Bence,

There is no difference between the 73-74 BB hoods and the small block other than the numerals fixed to them. These hoods are the same height as all the other hoods up to and including the '79 hoods. Just make sure your intake is the same height as other 70-74 Vette BB intakes.

Chuck

BubbaJJ

Earth to Bence,,, Dude, Chevy put BBs in these things from the factory. Big hairy Big Blocks in some. The problem with race guys is that they try to apply everything that could have ever happened at the track to street cars. They told me that my 8.5 inch ten bolt would never live behind my 454. BS, It lives fine. It might not survive in a ten second drag car, but it isn't nor will it ever be a 10 second drag car. I had an Iron case Saginaw four speed in my Chevelle with nitrous, no problems, ever. Shock loads and 650 foot pounds of torque wil break stuff, on the strip. Chances are you will not put your car through the stresses of a race car. You put the heavy duty stuff in race cars, RACE CARS, not daily drivers. It's my personal opinion that with a carburator, 500+ HP is kinda hard to build for street use. If your shooting for 13s, your stuff will live just fine, and 400HP will do the job just peachy. Dont get caught up in all the race car bull if your not building a race car. It's a waste of money.

BubbaJJ

One more thing, anyone that would tell you to disable you power accessories is a retard.

427V8

:D :smash: :D :smash:

How do you really feel! LMAO

73 LS-4

Bence, I think the real trick here is to build the car for what you want to use it for. Talking to a drag racer about how to setup a street car doesn't do you a whole lot of good. I don't think your looking to build a drag car that sees occasional street use, but more the opposite (I could be wrong here but that's my impression). I so far haven't broken anything on mine (knock on wood), and I'm not exactly nice to it but I don't flog it either. I don't think poly motor mounts would be a bad idea especially since they would be so easy to change during an engine swap but I don't feel them as being mandatory. A 4spd with a big block is deffinitly the way to go with a street car in my oppinion, I think it makes them a lot more fun, plus they save you some weight over a turbo 400, albeit If I was going to build a race car out of one I'd get an auto for consistency reasons. Bence I think you need to talk with someone who has a car set up similiar to what your looking for and use this as a starting point for your project. I look at a lot of the other big block cars on here's setup and some are set up a lot more radically then I want to go and some a bit more mild, same goes for the suspensions. The great thing about this board is you can ask everyone how there setup works for them and what they like and don't like and adjust your plans off of this.

:cheers:
Pat Kunz

LAvetteman

Bence, I have no idea what mounts I have. If you drive like he does, you will need solids. Muncie transmissions have also been called "ROCK CRUSHERS", I may slip a 5spd in mine one day, but it won't be cause it wasn't durable. Shafts and joints, as everything else, run em till they break, having no problem with mine. I have neither power brakes are steering in my vette, in this car it doesn't bother me, in a daily driver it would. You will probably run into issues with this at time of installing THE BEAST. :yesnod: He kinda sounds like one of those "wise ole men", advising you from his experience, forgeting how much fun he had along the way.

MassVette

Here's what's in my 1979: 502/502 H.P.; locking poly motor mounts(work fine); poly trans. mount(works fine); power steering(works fine); power brakes(work fine); A/C(no problem); Richmond six speed Overdrive(real fine); CenterForce dual friction clutch(works fine if broken in properly); HD u-joints w/o grease fittings(work fine); stock 3:55 rear end (works fine). My car is a DAILY DRIVER during warm weather, and I've had no problems with this stuff. BTW, I'm not 25 anymore, but I still have a real "lead" foot.
The advice you got was solid, but given from a hard-core, strictly straight-line viewpoint.
:chevy :flag :chevy

ZD75blue

uh people say take what people say with a grain of salt, from that guys dad you just got a hand full of salt :jester

I would go poly just so I wouldnt have to replace the mounts

if it vibrates buy thicker seat cushions :yesnod:

ZD