allignment with caster at 6 grades positive...
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Just try and picture the arm looking down on it from the top. You want to move the ball joint to the rear of the car. By adding shims to the rear stud it pulls the back of the rod in towards the center of the car and the ball joint to the rear.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 20,709
Likes: 25
From: Sorrento Italy
thanks gordon
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 4
St. Jude Donor '03,'11
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 16,945
Likes: 9
Adding shims to the rear stud increases pos. caster, it rotates the upper arm, moving the ball joint backwards and thus angling the upright back even more, moving the extended steering axis to ground intersection point forward (caster)
Last edited by Twin_Turbo; Mar 5, 2007 at 06:49 PM.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 417
Likes: 40
From: Swansea IL
Compromise Settings!
Gordonm,
If you have a car that you use for dual purpose, you just have to compromise with your alignment settings.
The easiest to change is the camber and will have the most effect on your handling.
Set the castor and toe where you can live with it on the street. I would stay within factory specs here.
Get a camber gauge and learn how to use it. You can change the front camber easily by adding shims to the upper a-arm. Not rocket science here. For short drives to events, set the camber at home and just live with a twitchey car for a few miles. When you get home from the event, change the camber back to your street settings.
Face it, your just out having fun and trying to get a little edge on your friendly competitor. One of the biggest advantages you can get is tires. All the alignment settings are not worth a real stickey, large foot print, tire.
Years ago when Hoosier started making auto-x tires, I purchased a set. They made the biggest difference of all.
So put your effort and bucks where it will do the most good. Tires. Then play with alignments, shock settings, and sway bars. It's all in good fun and a learning experience to tailor your car's handling to the event of the day.
Enjoy.
Bob
If you have a car that you use for dual purpose, you just have to compromise with your alignment settings.
The easiest to change is the camber and will have the most effect on your handling.
Set the castor and toe where you can live with it on the street. I would stay within factory specs here.
Get a camber gauge and learn how to use it. You can change the front camber easily by adding shims to the upper a-arm. Not rocket science here. For short drives to events, set the camber at home and just live with a twitchey car for a few miles. When you get home from the event, change the camber back to your street settings.
Face it, your just out having fun and trying to get a little edge on your friendly competitor. One of the biggest advantages you can get is tires. All the alignment settings are not worth a real stickey, large foot print, tire.
Years ago when Hoosier started making auto-x tires, I purchased a set. They made the biggest difference of all.
So put your effort and bucks where it will do the most good. Tires. Then play with alignments, shock settings, and sway bars. It's all in good fun and a learning experience to tailor your car's handling to the event of the day.
Enjoy.
Bob
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Gordonm,
If you have a car that you use for dual purpose, you just have to compromise with your alignment settings.
The easiest to change is the camber and will have the most effect on your handling.
Set the castor and toe where you can live with it on the street. I would stay within factory specs here.
Get a camber gauge and learn how to use it. You can change the front camber easily by adding shims to the upper a-arm. Not rocket science here. For short drives to events, set the camber at home and just live with a twitchey car for a few miles. When you get home from the event, change the camber back to your street settings.
Face it, your just out having fun and trying to get a little edge on your friendly competitor. One of the biggest advantages you can get is tires. All the alignment settings are not worth a real stickey, large foot print, tire.
Years ago when Hoosier started making auto-x tires, I purchased a set. They made the biggest difference of all.
So put your effort and bucks where it will do the most good. Tires. Then play with alignments, shock settings, and sway bars. It's all in good fun and a learning experience to tailor your car's handling to the event of the day.
Enjoy.
Bob
If you have a car that you use for dual purpose, you just have to compromise with your alignment settings.
The easiest to change is the camber and will have the most effect on your handling.
Set the castor and toe where you can live with it on the street. I would stay within factory specs here.
Get a camber gauge and learn how to use it. You can change the front camber easily by adding shims to the upper a-arm. Not rocket science here. For short drives to events, set the camber at home and just live with a twitchey car for a few miles. When you get home from the event, change the camber back to your street settings.
Face it, your just out having fun and trying to get a little edge on your friendly competitor. One of the biggest advantages you can get is tires. All the alignment settings are not worth a real stickey, large foot print, tire.
Years ago when Hoosier started making auto-x tires, I purchased a set. They made the biggest difference of all.
So put your effort and bucks where it will do the most good. Tires. Then play with alignments, shock settings, and sway bars. It's all in good fun and a learning experience to tailor your car's handling to the event of the day.
Enjoy.
Bob
That was pretty much my plan. Run 4 to 6 degrees on the castor and then just play with the camber settings for autoX events. I'll set the toe pretty much stock specs. Yes I agree on the tires. I am running 17/18 combo with a decent footprint and if I ever want to get serious I'll have to purchase a set of track tires. I see a few guys running these and it makes a big difference. I can now change the spring settings easily due to the mono front and dual mount rear and I can try a few different things now. I'm sure I'll be backwards a few times but if you don't spin you are not pushing it.
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Brett Foote
Racer
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 417
Likes: 40
From: Swansea IL
Camber and Toe
Toe changes for low speed and one lap events are not all that critical on the front (especially on a car you drive to the event). You are going to set it back to street specs when you get home anyway.
I have run anywhere from 1/8 toe in to 1/8 toe out on my racecar. The only thing that the driver will experience is the car will be more prone to dart in one direction or the other as you cross over bumps and is more darty (is that a word?) under braking. You have your hands tight on the wheel anyway so no big deal.
If you can tolerate the toe out (as a driver) you decrease the slip angle of the inside tire a few degrees and keep the friction base higher longer. Once the slip angle of the tire gets too great, you have transitioned into understeer and the only thing that will help is to slow down/get off the throttle.
HTHs
Bob
I have run anywhere from 1/8 toe in to 1/8 toe out on my racecar. The only thing that the driver will experience is the car will be more prone to dart in one direction or the other as you cross over bumps and is more darty (is that a word?) under braking. You have your hands tight on the wheel anyway so no big deal.
If you can tolerate the toe out (as a driver) you decrease the slip angle of the inside tire a few degrees and keep the friction base higher longer. Once the slip angle of the tire gets too great, you have transitioned into understeer and the only thing that will help is to slow down/get off the throttle.
HTHs
Bob
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 20,709
Likes: 25
From: Sorrento Italy
i've found out what happened and why y'day i was confused about the shims to be put forward or rear the a-arm...
when i went to do the new allignment the car, with the new a-arms just fixed, had too much positive caster, over 10 degrees positive, and from one side more then the other, so the guy had to add shims to the front in order to reduce the positive caster from more then 10 to around 6...equally.
that's clear now...
when i went to do the new allignment the car, with the new a-arms just fixed, had too much positive caster, over 10 degrees positive, and from one side more then the other, so the guy had to add shims to the front in order to reduce the positive caster from more then 10 to around 6...equally.
that's clear now...
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,727
Likes: 38
From: Fremont CA
Don't put too much negative camber in with bias ply Hoosiers. They don't like more than about 1 degree of negative. I much prefer the radial Hoosiers to the old bias belted tires. Shoot for about 1 degree negative, zero toe, and 1 degree negative camber at the front, 1/2-3/4degree negative camber and 3/16 toe in at the rear for this Vette.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,247
Likes: 210
From: Detroit MI
Originally Posted by Solid LT1
Don't put too much negative camber in with bias ply Hoosiers. They don't like more than about 1 degree of negative. I much prefer the radial Hoosiers to the old bias belted tires. Shoot for about 1 degree negative, zero toe, and 1 degree negative camber at the front, 1/2-3/4degree negative camber and 3/16 toe in at the rear for this Vette.
