single plane or dual plane ?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,060
Likes: 46
From: winter haven florida
St. Jude Donor '12
single plane or dual plane ?
i am on the fence on this one. i have figured out my combo for my 396 sb build and the numbers are comming up quite nicely on the dyno sim. my dcr is at 8.0054 with a hyd roller and afr 210 heads with a scr at 10.32. i will be running a 3.90 gear with a th400. so i will be turing some rpms at cruise. i also have a 2500 to 2800 stall. the numbers are comming up very nice with both single and dual plane intakes above 3000 rpms. the dual has quite a bit more on the bottom and right at the stall speed. the single starts to come in just after the stall speed. the numbers are quite a bit more impressive up top with the single plane. i know i cant expect the numbers to be very accurate with a sim so i am looking for a little experiance to point the way again. the car is going to be a street strip toy and will see maybe 100 miles a month on the highway at the most. the rest of the miles about 20 a week will be blasting around town or at the strip on occasion. give me some opinions of what you would go with or have gone with and let me know the pros and cons of both. i would also like to know what brands and models of intakes you have used and what makes the best power. thanks for the help.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,412
Likes: 3
What duration cam? I have the AFR195 heads, although I've heard better things about the dual plane manifold on my engine setup, I like the single plane (Victor Jr) better. No difference cruising around, just feels like it breathes better up top.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,844
Likes: 99
From: Orrtanna Pa.
I can offer this real world experience. The RPM intake isn't all that bad on a 406 to around 6000 rpms,some say a bit higher. The Vic Jr runs away from 6000 on up.(run mine to 7000). The downside of the Vic Jr will be the lowend,specifically idle. I've spent quite a bit of time trying to get a decent 1000 rpm idle,tweaking the carb's idle feed restrictors. I don't spend much time idling anyway,so it's really not a big deal,but in retrospect,the RPM intake allowed a easy 650 rpm idle in gear (with the old 240 degree cam)
Overall,I can't complain about the Vic. Jr,the only driving I can think of that would need full tilt lowend power would be a towtruck.
Overall,I can't complain about the Vic. Jr,the only driving I can think of that would need full tilt lowend power would be a towtruck.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,060
Likes: 46
From: winter haven florida
St. Jude Donor '12
the cam is a hyd roller with a rev kit. adv dur. 286 / 292 with .592 and .559 lift dur at .050 236 / 240. i dont mind a rough idle as i am looking for quit a bit of lope, it just needs to be able to idle and not stall out. the single plane is sounding good so far. the sim is showing the peak hp at 6000 to 6500 rpms.
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 683
Likes: 1
From: Mounds View Minnesota
I run 11.90's on my 434, it has a kinda small cam ~.5" lift, using a RPM Airgap.
Drive great around town, idles perfectly, no hesitating, pulls to 6000 rpm.
I started with a supervictor,
of course it could have been my awesome ( ly bad ) tuning abilities...
Drive great around town, idles perfectly, no hesitating, pulls to 6000 rpm.
I started with a supervictor,
of course it could have been my awesome ( ly bad ) tuning abilities...
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,060
Likes: 46
From: winter haven florida
St. Jude Donor '12
gkull, the rpm airgap uses 1205's and that is a gasket option from afr for the 210's so that is why i was wondering about it but they also suggest the single plane intake on their website too. this makes me think that you too are suggesting the single plane. so far it looks like it is winning out. anybody use the world products motown single plane?
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 17,676
Likes: 201
From: Who says "Nothing is impossible" ? I've been doing nothing for years.
Glad to see things have changed around here, a few years ago 90% of the responses would have been for a dual plane on the street. Put the Vic Jr on and forgeddaboudit. 
Find out what your intake port size is, the Vic Jr comes in Flepro 1205 and 1206 sizes
Find out what your intake port size is, the Vic Jr comes in Flepro 1205 and 1206 sizes
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Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
gkull, the rpm airgap uses 1205's and that is a gasket option from afr for the 210's so that is why i was wondering about it but they also suggest the single plane intake on their website too. this makes me think that you too are suggesting the single plane. so far it looks like it is winning out. anybody use the world products motown single plane?
I used my Weiand Team "G" intake on both my 383 and 427. It has the smallest plenum and the lowest rpm rating. Just what most people on the street need. The Team "G" mounted on the motor is actually lower than my Dart tall valve covers.
I just installed the Motown big single on my 427. It is 1.5 inches taller and would not fit under a stock hood. I have also been using a 1/2 inch wood thermal spacer.
I have a picture of both of these intakes on my new ugly 434 post
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,060
Likes: 46
From: winter haven florida
St. Jude Donor '12
I have a set of older AFR race ready 210's. They used FelPro 1206. I would check your head port size VS the listed 1206 gasket port size. I think that you would be trimming a 1205 larger.
I used my Weiand Team "G" intake on both my 383 and 427. It has the smallest plenum and the lowest rpm rating. Just what most people on the street need. The Team "G" mounted on the motor is actually lower than my Dart tall valve covers.
I just installed the Motown big single on my 427. It is 1.5 inches taller and would not fit under a stock hood. I have also been using a 1/2 inch wood thermal spacer.
I have a picture of both of these intakes on my new ugly 434 post
I used my Weiand Team "G" intake on both my 383 and 427. It has the smallest plenum and the lowest rpm rating. Just what most people on the street need. The Team "G" mounted on the motor is actually lower than my Dart tall valve covers.
I just installed the Motown big single on my 427. It is 1.5 inches taller and would not fit under a stock hood. I have also been using a 1/2 inch wood thermal spacer.
I have a picture of both of these intakes on my new ugly 434 post
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
thanks for the info on the team g. i think you are correct on the gaskets because they say that the 1206 is not exact and the port size is larger than the 1205. so the single plane it will be. now it is between the victor jr., team g, and the motown. i am going with a raised hood anyway so hight will not be an issue. i will have o check out the pics, also get us a video of than thing running.
The Motown - Zip - Zero - I'm figuring out how or where to tap a hole to mount my throttle linkage rear stop. It clears my Twin turbo hood.
Both of these intakes required very little work to exact port match to my Dart heads.
Last edited by gkull; Mar 12, 2007 at 02:33 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,943
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From: Wildwood IL
Just went through this. AFR recomended the Felpro 1205 for my recently purchased Race Ready 210's. On mine, they fit perfect. No overlap. The 1205 also fits my Pro Products Crosswind (RPM-Airgap clone). Manifold ports are only .005 smaller in height & width than the 1205.
Can't a dual plane with a portion of the center divider milled out act like a single plane up top to some degree?? Old racer trick from the 60's...
Eddie
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
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From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Hi George!
Just went through this. AFR recomended the Felpro 1205 for my recently purchased Race Ready 210's. On mine, they fit perfect. No overlap. The 1205 also fits my Pro Products Crosswind (RPM-Airgap clone). Manifold ports are only .005 smaller in height & width than the 1205.
Can't a dual plane with a portion of the center divider milled out act like a single plane up top to some degree?? Old racer trick from the 60's...
Eddie
Just went through this. AFR recomended the Felpro 1205 for my recently purchased Race Ready 210's. On mine, they fit perfect. No overlap. The 1205 also fits my Pro Products Crosswind (RPM-Airgap clone). Manifold ports are only .005 smaller in height & width than the 1205.
Can't a dual plane with a portion of the center divider milled out act like a single plane up top to some degree?? Old racer trick from the 60's...
Eddie
this is from the AFR web site
Important: Do not port match you intake manifold to these below gaskets, as they do not exactly fit AFR cylinder heads. Fel Pro #1206 standard gaskets should be used for 210, 220, & 227 heads. Fel Pro 1205 gaskets should be used on the 195 heads.
this is the new eliminater 210 heads
Intake Port Gasket, 1.310" X 2.180" w/ 3/8" radius AFR #6820
Intake Gasket Option, 1.280" X 2.090" Fel-Pro #1206, AFR #6810
Exhaust Port Gasket Fel-Pro #1404, AFR #6834
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,060
Likes: 46
From: winter haven florida
St. Jude Donor '12
the Team "G" is a street friendly manifold with prethreaded rear vac port for 3/8th to your PVC or brakes. Also threaded rear places for throttle linkage.
The Motown - Zip - Zero - I'm figuring out how or where to tap a hole to mount my throttle linkage rear stop. It clears my Twin turbo hood.
Both of these intakes required very little work to exact port match to my Dart heads.
The Motown - Zip - Zero - I'm figuring out how or where to tap a hole to mount my throttle linkage rear stop. It clears my Twin turbo hood.
Both of these intakes required very little work to exact port match to my Dart heads.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
link to manifold pictures on pages 2-3 When you start getting up around 500 foot pounds of TQ you don't even notice + or - 20 foot pounds. I have been using single planes in my Vette for @ 20 years even with little 355 ci motors
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1641154&page=2
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1641154&page=2
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,060
Likes: 46
From: winter haven florida
St. Jude Donor '12
thanks for the link i was just hunting that thread. that motown sure does look nice but the team g looks a lot more friendly to put together on a street set up.
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 21,953
Likes: 1,445
From: Reno Nevada
2024 C3 of the Year Finalist- Modified
Weiand 7530 -Single Plane with Isolated Plenum
Square Carburetor Mounting Flange
Isolated Water cross-over
Power band: 2800-7200 RPM
Height: Front 3.63", Rear 4.56"
Port Size: 2.10” height 1.24" width
See the 3/8th port on the back of the plenum .
Square Carburetor Mounting Flange
Isolated Water cross-over
Power band: 2800-7200 RPM
Height: Front 3.63", Rear 4.56"
Port Size: 2.10” height 1.24" width
See the 3/8th port on the back of the plenum .
Last edited by gkull; Mar 12, 2007 at 03:43 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,060
Likes: 46
From: winter haven florida
St. Jude Donor '12
the team g seems like the one for me so far unless someone can come up with a really good reason to go with something else. thanks for all the info and past experiances.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 19,610
Likes: 778
From: Forked River NJ
Another vote hear for the single plane. I was running a dual plane on my old 350 and went to the single plain and noticed very little difference in the bottom end. I was and still am running a fairly large solid flat tappet so I did not have much bottom end anyway. I am running a Victor Jr and I drilled and tapped the rear for a vacuum fitting. The Team G is a great manifold and I would have gone that way but I already had the Victor Jr. With the 385 now the bottom end has improved but still not much below 2500 rpm. But with 3.70 gears and a Tremec 3.27 1st gear it does not spend much time below 2500 rpm.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,412
Likes: 3
I noticed no difference at idle between the Performer RPM and the Victor Jr. My idle is set at 800. And I have a 236 242 cam, pretty close to yours. And that cam doesn't make power below 3K rpms anyways.
Also, I've had no problems attaching vacuum to my manifold. PCV and dist adv to the carb base, and brakes/ headlights to the port on the back of the Victor Jr.
Also, I've had no problems attaching vacuum to my manifold. PCV and dist adv to the carb base, and brakes/ headlights to the port on the back of the Victor Jr.
