My buddy and I got into a slightly "heated" discussion about small blocks vs big blocks. I've come to the conclusion that his opinion can't be changed through reasonable discussion....so I guess I'll have to let the big block do the talking when I get it built :)

Basically here is what my buddy is going to be running:

1989 S10 Pick-Up Short Bed (Weighs Approximately 2900lbs)
350 (Bored +.030 ; 4 Bolt Mains)
Forged Crank/Pistons & Rods
10:1 Compression Ratio
600CFM or 750CFM Carburetor
64cc Heads (1.94/1.50 Valves)
Heads HEAVILY Ported & Polished
Headers
2.5" Dual Exhaust
True Roller Rocker Arms
295 Duration (105 Lobe Seperation) Solid Lifter Cam
Weiand Aluminum Intake
Turbo 350 Transmission
3.73 Rear Gears (Tachs 3000RPMs @ 55MPH)
16 Gallon Fuel Cell In The Bed Of His Truck (To Help Traction)

He's having one of his buddies help him build it (this buddy builds drag car engines). He said if he has to beat me he'll run the engine to 9000RPMs! He's predicting 12.50s on street tires. He was telling me that he'll be pushing 425-450 HP.

I said "WOW!(sarcastic), you have to rev to 9000RPMs to make that kind of power?....I'll be revving mine to 5500RPMs-6000RPMs and will be making more power :) "

My other buddy with the big block told me not to sweat it because I should take him without a problem. He told me that the traction of my 'Vette will be A LOT better than the traction of my buddies S10.

My setup is as follows:

454 Big Block (Bored +.030 ; 2 Bolt Mains)
Cast Crank & Rods
Hyperuetectic Pistons (Approximately 10:1 Compression Ratio)
Comp Cams XE274 Hydraulic Cam Kit
'73 Corvette 454 Heads (110cc ; 2.06/1.72 Valves)
Heads Pocket Ported & Polished
Holley 850CFM Double Pumper Carburetor
Edelbrock Torker II Intake
Pocket Ported & Polished Intake
Hooker Header Side Pipes
3.36 Rear Gears
Borg Warner 4 Speed (Tach 2500RPMs @ 60MPH)
275/60/15s On The Back ; 215/70/15s On The Front

What do you guys think I need to do to beat him? When I do race him, I'm pulling the muffler inserts and running open headers. I have no idea what kind of power my engine will be putting out...but have been told that I should at least be pushing 1HP per cubic inch (460HP). What do you guys think? I'm getting worried :nonod: .

 

bence,
I think you and I are building twin engines :) Which heads do you have? (casting num) I have a set of oval-port open chamber 781's. They're supposed to be pretty nice, so I'm going to stick with them, just port them slightly. I'm gonna go .030 over, cast crank and rods, but ARP rod bolts (I suggest you do the same). I'm going with the XE274 cam too. I'll probably go with Keith Black Hypos, but it depends on where I go with compression, I might need a slight dome that they dont offer. (Need to figure out what my stock compression is) I want the Holley EFI more than anything, but it's $2500 that could really be spent elsewhere, and seeing as how I don't have a running car, I could use that money. I'll probably go with like a Torker II or Performer RPM and a Holley 850 like you. At least temporarily. I've got a 3:36 rear end :) and a Super T-10.

Ever used the IRC channel? We should talk more.


You know, another thing I just realized. When you are done you will have a Big Block street Corvette. He will have a drag truck, a S-10 no less. Which would you rather have?


[Modified by ddn, 12:24 PM 10/13/2001]

 

:bs

 

There is a good chance that the S-10 will beat you in the 1/4 mile. He will never rev his engine to 9000 RPMs, can tell he doesn't know anything about engines. My friend has a ZZ4 in an S-10 and it runs low 12s and 10.5 on juice. You will be too busy shifting your car to get low 12s.

 

I was afraid of that. I did some calculations over the internet and figured out that if he is pushing 400HP at the flywheel, I need at least 480HP at the flywheel to be even with him.

You are correct, the manual transmission will most certainly hurt me. I don't plan on "power shifting" it or "straight sticking" it (too much potential for things to break) so he'll probably beat me. One thing I have learned though, you can't try to beat everyone. If you try to beat everyone you'll wind up with a chrome plated blower sticking out of the hood and a fogger system (amongst other things). Not that there's anything wrong with that...it's just not what I'm after.

I'll talk with my buddy who has the big block tonight and see what he thinks. It's just a shame that I like driving a stick too much, otherwise an automatic tranny would put me closer to beating him (I just don't want an automatic).

Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

ddn:
Sounds like we are building identical engines, great minds think alike :) No, I'm not on the IRC channel. Yea, we should talk more about our setups. You can e-mail me or I could e-mail you. :cool:

 

9,000 rpm with 1.94 heads. :bs

Here are the closest spec I could find for a cam like your friends:
Mechanical Lifter Camshafts for Drag Racing Applications

Performance usage, good mid and upper RPM torque and HP, bracket racing; Pro, Pro ET, Super ET, etc., auto trans w/race converter, 11.0 to 12.5 compression ratio advised. Basic RPM 3800-6800

Cam Specifications
Degrees Duration @ .050 Int./Exh. 250/260
Degrees Advertised Duration Int./Exh. 285/295
Degree Lobe Separation 106
Open/Close @.050" Cam Lift Int./Exh. .533/.555

If your buddy runs the stoc torque converter, he will bog like the proverbial big dog...you win.
If you puts a hi-stall torque converter in, he'll probably smoke the tires without serious suspensions work...you win.

Seriously, his setup may work better at the strip but your's will be much more driveable on the street. He will either be bogging and stalling at every light or having to smoke them at every light.

Street manners.. Corvette no contest...you win.

 

I think you've got him beat big time.

 

NOS :yesnod: and hide it well.

 

I'm still new to drag racing, why is the manual trans a hinderance? I always thought it was better for racing? Or is that only if you don't mind beating up on it?


Yeah, I'd say it would be funny as hell to watch you fly away with a NOS setup... but then he'll just cry that you were on the bottle and you were "cheating" blah blah blah blah

when you race him, use race gas or xylene or something... that'll give you a little edge.

One last thing though... get rid of the 3.08.... :)

if you don't want all the rpms of a 3.73, maybe a 3.55 would work.



[Modified by Bifkin, 4:03 PM 10/13/2001]

 

Big block makes big tq and thats what gets you goin. Vette hooks up good too. Biggest mistake people make with BB is over revving. Keep it in the max tq range. The vette is heavy. With the S-10 weighting in at only 2900lbs...dont sell the smallblock short. The specs you list on the S-10 indicate that it will not be that streetable in all reality.

 

Bifkin, automatic trannys provide additional tq multiplcation through the convertor as well as being relitivly less fool proof than manual trannys. in many cases its error on the part of the driver that wins or looses a race. A properly set up manual with the right gears is as good as any automatic in a race so long as the driver is consistant and up to par. I,d say 1 in 10 can really master a manual tranny.

 

Steve:
That cam is very similar to the one that he will be running. He won't give me all the specs on it because he wants to keep it as a surprise. The only thing he told me was 105 lobe seperation and a lot of duration and lift. He told me that he is changing converters...but I don't know what stall speed. I still can't see how he's going to be able to hook up. Let's face it pick-up trucks are just way too light in the butt end. I don't know if this matters but he has a set of $200 traction bars...

Bifkin:
Basically the big disadvantage to a stick (unless you power shift/straight stick) is that you have to let of the gas to change gears. I'm not the fastest shifter in the world, but by no means am I the slowest. I consider myself and above average driver when it comes to shifting gears. By power shifting you essential keep your foot to the floor and shift gears as quickly as possible while maintaining your RPMs (hard on your driveline). When straight sticking, you don't use the clutch at all you simply rip the shifter to the desired gear (VERY hard on the driveline).

I've been kicking around the idea of running 11:1 compression ratio much like the old LS6 engines. The only downside is that I'd have to octane boost everytime I fill up (which will be a lot). I may just stick with the 10:1 compression ratio though.

I don't have 3.08s, I have 3.36s (by changing to the 275/60 tires on the back it will make my rear end more like a 3.23). My goal is to get the engine in and running and then once I save up some cash I'll either change to 3.55s or 3.70s.

Either way, I'm not going to run my buddy until I am certain that I can beat him (once I get the lower gears in :) ).

 

I hear alot of people say "don't go over 400hp with a 2 bolt". Have you considered this? As far as that POS truck, I would rather push a vette than drive an S-10. :yesnod:

 

at the track his et will probably be better than yours. from highway speeds you'll dog him every time.

 

71,454,4spd:
I've actually never been told that, I was told that a 2 bolt block should suffice with my setup. That's all my buddy with the 454 Camaro is running (2 bolt block). He's running a hotter setup than I plan to, he's pushing about 550 gross HP and runs 11.66s in the 1/4 mile.

Does anyone know whether 500HP is too much for a 2 bolt block?

 

consider yourself lucky that you have somebody to race. I asked C5 guys if they could beat me and they said OH YES,then they heard their mother calling them and backed down. I asked a 427 Cobra replica and he backed down too!(i figured he could win and it would still be fun).
See, these are all older guys that don't want to ask their mother for a note giving permission.
So nobody has raced me except one 92 LT1 away from a light and he got the jump on my 61. but i passed it in 3rd when his trans upshifted.

So no sense going past 400hp(for me) when nobody around here will even try to pass me.

 

Is this gonna be a real race, like on a dragstrip? If not don't worry about it. If you just race for 100ft. or so on the street from light to light you know you'll take him every time. Watch out if he decides to hook one day though. His S-10 in awful light and makes a considerable amount of hp.

 

Stingy74:
Yes, this is going to be done right....if we race it will be at our local drag strip. If I do choose to run him, it's going to be when I'm ready. I'm currently looking for a 3.70 rear end to replace my 3.36 to help me wind the gears up quicker. When we race, I'm going to do anything to give myself a slight advantage (i.e. running octane boost, uncapping the headers, pulling the air cleaner...etc). When you say "decides to hook" do you mean fishtail off the line? That's why we're doing it at the drag strip so I don't have to worry about that :)

 

I am horrible at explaining things, so I will try again. If he can get that little S-10 to hook (ie: if he has slicks) watch out. It will be quick. Maybe pull a wire off when he isn't looking. That will give you the "slight advantage" you speak of :rolleyes: